Need advice on recording stand-up acoustic bass

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dlogan
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2011/04/20 12:30:04 (permalink)

Need advice on recording stand-up acoustic bass

I'll be recording an acoustic bass for the first time on Saturday. The guy playing it is pretty good (not great) and I don't think he's ever recorded before. He's playing on 2 songs that have quite a few tracks - not very sparse arrangements; except a few spots where the bass will be more exposed. I'm looking for more of a "modern" acoustic bass sound, where the notes are articulated more as opposed to an old Sun Studios bass sound or something like that.

He's got a DI which I plan on recording (I may or may not blend it in - figured I'd record it just in case), but I would appreciate any advice on mic position. Isolation is not a concern because the bass will be overdubbed. I've found this info and wanted to see if people are with this?
 
Placing the microphone three or four inches away from the instrument and in-between the bridge and the F hole is my traditional placement
 
Of course with mic'ing anything, it's a matter of trial and error and involves different variables with the instrument, player, room, style, etc. But I'm looking for a good starting point.  Also I saw a recommendation on using a ribbon mic, which I don't have. I do have several LDCs and plan on starting with my "go to" mic - my Blue Blueberry.
 
Thanks!
post edited by dlogan - 2011/04/20 12:31:52
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    skullsession
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    Re:Need advice on recording stand-up acoustic bass 2011/04/20 13:08:08 (permalink)
    If you've got the DI, it's probably a piezo of some sort...so you should get plenty of good attack to blend in as needed.

    The placement as described above is a pretty standard place to start.  A ribbon would be nice to blend with the DI...no doubt.

    BUT...going into it knowing you'll have the DI as well, you might just have him play the thing and put a mic in the room where the bass sounds the most natural to you.  That's what I'd do first....blending the DI to get the right amount of attack and punch that will come from it.

    Don't forget....if you're blending the mic with a DI, you'll want to check your phase - and/or move the mic until you get them to sound in phase.  Otherwise, you might be scratching your head, wondering where the heck all the low end is...

    HOOK:  Skullsessions.com  / Darwins God Album

    "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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    wst3
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    Re:Need advice on recording stand-up acoustic bass 2011/04/20 13:32:40 (permalink)
    Trial and error is your friend! And of course "it depends"...

    on the room
    on the instrument
    on the player
    on the arrangement

    and so on<G>...

    Some things I've done in the past that have worked out quite well for me:

    I almost always use a pair of microphones on an upright bass -

    I like the RE-20 or the MD-421 on a very short stand aimed at the bridge, usually from the high string side, and within a foot or so most of the time. The easiest thing to do is have the player play and crawl around till you hear a really natural balanced of thump and twang (I should trademark that!). You can then fine tune the balance by moving the microphone in our out, the MD-421 has a fairly pronounced proximity effect, the RE-20 not so much.

    I like almost anything but the above two as a second microphone. You can place a large capsule condenser (I've used AKG C414, Neumann TLM-193, Blue Dragon and Shure KSM-32) above the players shoulder to sorta/kinda capture what the player hears. I usually use a cardiod pattern, and aim the sweet spot at the end of the fingerboard. I've also tried ribbon microphones in that position, but never liked the result. For those I tend to make them something of a room microphone, place them 2 to 3 feet away at chest level or a little higher (depending on the rest of the room sound).

    I've also tried a close in small capsule condenser, almost always an Earthworks SR-77 or an AKG C-451) and place it above the sound hole. It's a very distinct sound, and you'll recognize it - and love it or hate it - instantly. It is much closer to what you describe as a modern sound.

    Do keep an eye on the distances, the 3:1 rule is your friend, otherwise you'll end up with all sorts of odd effects, from pure mud to comb filtering.

    And while I might admit to trying more than two microphones, if I did I'd have to point out that it never worked out for me - the result was too complex to mix. That includes settings where I've used a stereo pair for a room microphone for an entire ensemble.

    If the instrument has a pickup I will always record that as a second or third track, but it's a crap shoot as to whether or not I use it.

    PURE SPECULATION - given your description I'd start with the DI and the RE-20 but I'd place the RE-20 much closer than I normally do. I think that will give you what you need... but, keep in mind this is worth every penny you paid for it!!!!

    -- Bill
    Audio Enterprise
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    dlogan
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    Re:Need advice on recording stand-up acoustic bass 2011/04/20 13:49:39 (permalink)
    Thanks James! Sounds like the DI will be pretty useful. With acoustic guitar I sometimes record the DI but usually don't use it. With the acoustic bass I will plan on working it in as you suggested.

    Bill - "thump and twang" - yes, thats what I want! Better apply for that trademark now . I had planned on sticking with one mic, but your e-mail gives me some good suggestions for incorporating a second if needed. Thanks!
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    skullsession
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    Re:Need advice on recording stand-up acoustic bass 2011/04/20 14:47:39 (permalink)
    Dave....

    You also might give it some thought to - instead of going DI with the pickup - running it through an amp and miking the amp in addition to the live mic on the instrument itself.

    I've used this technique along with live mics on an acoustic many times.  You get the benefit of the pickup, but not necessarily the clackity clack of the direct piezo.

    HOOK:  Skullsessions.com  / Darwins God Album

    "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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    Philip
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    Re:Need advice on recording stand-up acoustic bass 2011/04/27 23:20:51 (permalink)
    Thanks for sharing (Dave, Hook, Bill) ... I just bought a 5 string acoustic (for an aspiring band-mate) and hope one day to record his.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    jamescollins
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    Re:Need advice on recording stand-up acoustic bass 2011/04/28 09:35:28 (permalink)
    I think the 4-5 inches advice only applies when the DB is playing in a group (as it usually is) for isolation purposes. Any bowed instrument, (even though he'll probably be playing pizz.) particularly the DB needs space. Close micing a bass just sounds horrible to me. I usually end up in omni, about 2-3 feet out in any number of positions - most often just below the bridge.

    But as usual, try everything, and do what works!

    I'll have three fingers of Glenlivet, with a little bit of pepper... and some cheese.
     
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