Mesh
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Need help on buying an Upright Piano
I'm looking to get a used upright piano for the little ones to play/learn and could use any advice as I have no clue on what's good or bad. I'm looking for something under $1000. (I don't mind buying the piano below (as long as it works) & having it re-done) I found this piano in a local ad, but don't know if it's worth re-finishing or what other details are involved in fixing it, but this is the description on the ad: "I have this POS 1948 Lindenman & Sons piano sitting in my garage that I am looking to get rid of. Someone please make me an offer and get it out of here. Will take anything."
   
post edited by Mesh - 2011/08/06 15:29:47
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noldar12
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/06 15:31:54
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Ouch, if its been in a garage, with ever changing air temperature and humidity that could be trouble. Parts could tend to dry out, break, etc. The only way to know would be to try it. What sort of condition are the felts and hammers in? Another thing to watch out for is the condition of the frame. In some older pianos that have gone way flat, and suffer from a weakened frame, tuning back up to concert pitch becomes impossible, as the weakened frame cannot handle the additional tension from all the strings at true concert pitch. If it needs extensive restoration to be playable, that can get very expensive in a hurry. As there are several different sizes of upright pianos, in general, the taller the height of the upright, the better the sound will be (due to longer string length). <edit> Given the description of the piano as "stinky" I would likely take a pass on it. A piano needs stable room conditions, and decent care, or at least something better than neglect. The odds of it being in really playable condition are not good. Note that I know just enough about pianos to be somewhat dangerous.
post edited by noldar12 - 2011/08/06 15:37:42
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bitflipper
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/06 15:55:58
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Just take my piano, Mesh! It's just like an upright - only lying horizontal on three legs. The blue book price is around $10,000 but I'll let you have it for half that because you're a friend of bapu's.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/06 17:41:51
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Temps & humidity will screw one up in a hurry. I went looking for a piano many years ago. I looked at one that the lady had kept in her shed. Heat & humidity & cold in NC had ruined it. Keys were sticking bad. The wood had swollen and parts were no longer in alignment.
I found an old one in a church that was getting rid of a number of uprights in their children's building. All the keys worked. It had a horrid paint job and it was mine for $125.
I got it home and started stripping the paint. I discovered that there were several types of wood in it so I opted to paint it glossy black and tune it up. Using my strobe and a socket wrench that fit the tuning pegs, I got it up and running in fine fashion.
I kept it for a few years and sold it for more then I paid.
My advice... play it, and be sure all the keys work freely, and the pedals all work too. No sticking keys and no funny sounds inside. Look inside. Make a lowball offer...after all... you gotta move it, and make repairs to it so get it for a good price.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/06 19:00:26
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You need to get in there with a tuner and see what pitch it is at or how close to concert pitch it is. That is going to be a biggie for you. Watch out if it is well down from concert eg semitone or tone. You will have a very difficult time getting it back up to concert pitch and it might come back with work or it may not. A piano that is not on pitch is pretty useless!
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 09:08:42
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Tuning a piano correctly is a process. I have known several people who tuned piano's for a living or a sideline.
A piano that is out of tune should be tuned 3 times over a period of 6 to 8 months. Bring it up a bit each time depending on how bad it's out.
A piano should be tuned every time it is moved physically.
You should tune it as often as you have your teeth cleaned..... hopefully on a 6 month basis.... but just like teeth, some never get that professional touch as often as they should. I'm thinking probably only professional players and piano's in concert halls get that sort of treatment. The concert hall piano's & studio piano's probably get tuned more often than that.
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Janet
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 09:39:08
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If it doesn't play well and FEEL good, then I wouldn't buy it. Those are no fun to play, even if they're just for the kids. (those kids grow up and may appreciate a good piano.) :)
As much as I love real pianos (good ones, that is), have you considered an electric keyboard? They're way better and cheaper than they used to be. Good enough for kids to learn on.
AND they can put on the headphones when it starts to drive you crazy. :)
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bapu
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 10:55:24
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 12:05:19
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Following up on Janet's post.
The weighted key midi piano's with full sized keys would be the answer in my book. They are smaller, and lighter, and don't need tuning like a real one will. In addition, you will appreciate the headphone jack when it's time for the kids to practice.
You can pick up a decent one for less than a good "real" piano in top shape, or buy a used midi keyboard that is top of the line for about the same. Some of them are built to resemble real piano's if you want the look.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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bapu
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 12:14:13
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bapu
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 12:15:18
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Janet
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 12:18:06
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I wouldn't spend as much money on getting a good-looking one, as in finding one that FEELS like a piano. I don't think any of them (that mere mortals can afford) will ever feel like a real piano, but some of them are far better than others. Roland used to be the standard, but I'm not sure what is now.
That being said, I've played $25,000 acoustic grands that I didn't like the feel of. And again, you're talking little ones. When they get great, buy them a nice grand if you can at all afford it. :)
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Bub 
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 15:01:48
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or THIS Still have one like new in original packing.
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bapu
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 15:15:13
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Bub
or THIS
Still have one like new in original packing.
Whip that baby out and make some dope tunes Bub.
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craigb
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Who wants to buy an Uptight Piano???
2011/08/07 15:32:15
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Bub
or THIS
Still have one like new in original packing.
Gotta love this quote:
"the VL-1 is notable for its kitsch value among electronic musicians, due to its cheap construction and its unrealistic, uniquely low-fidelity sounds."
Hmm... Come to think about it, you can replace the term "VL-1" with some people I know of...  
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jbow
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 19:12:08
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I often see them on Craigslist for free if you will pick them up. My uncle used to tune them by ear and did a good job but be sure that there is a method to the madness.
I used to love to put thumbtacks in the hammers of my moms upright to make it sound like a honky tonk harpsichord. One day it will be mine!
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Rbh
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 20:59:32
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Often the problem with old Pianos is that the felts are very worn and the sound board is often cracked. Put together with old strings and you're into 3 k - 5k to really recondition it. Some models may well be worth it....but 98 % usually are not. I picked up an old upright grand a few years back for a 100.00 bucks just for a hobby project. I found that the full length sides were made of about 1.5" thick of birdseye maple, and very nicely aged. That alone would be worth more than 100.00 if I had the heart to trash the thing. Still in all...the mechanics of them are a treat to toy around with.
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RobertB
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 23:01:33
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1. Get the kids an electric keyboard per Janet's suggestion. 2. Offer to haul the POS off for a nominal fee. 3. Build yourself a trebuchet. 4. Have fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJgt-HO0_kY
post edited by RobertB - 2011/08/07 23:16:02
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craigb
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/07 23:33:44
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Rbh
I found that the full length sides were made of about 1.5" thick of birdseye maple, and very nicely aged.
Give the wood to Spacey and get in line for a cool guitar! LOL!
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 10:04:57
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Now I'm stuck on that trebuchet idea. Hmmm. Seems to me this could have multiple uses, especially if I can sneak up on certain people with it...
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Karyn
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 10:46:35
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What's that noise? Sounds like someone trying to sneak up on me with a trebuchet...
Where's my rifle?
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 11:16:48
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[Standing next to a large object covered by a tarp while looking innocent and staring off into the distance]
I think he went that way!
[Points towards Bapu]
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Karyn
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 11:22:10
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If you're covered by a tarp (standing next to a large object or not) how do you stare into the distance?
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Karyn
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 11:23:17
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And if you're covered by a tarp, how do you know you're standing next to a large object?
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 11:44:54
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I didn't say I was doing it effectively...
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craigb
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 11:45:44
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They have an app for that...
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Mesh
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 12:33:23
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noldar12
Ouch, if its been in a garage, with ever changing air temperature and humidity that could be trouble.
Parts could tend to dry out, break, etc. The only way to know would be to try it. What sort of condition are the felts and hammers in?
Another thing to watch out for is the condition of the frame. In some older pianos that have gone way flat, and suffer from a weakened frame, tuning back up to concert pitch becomes impossible, as the weakened frame cannot handle the additional tension from all the strings at true concert pitch.
If it needs extensive restoration to be playable, that can get very expensive in a hurry.
As there are several different sizes of upright pianos, in general, the taller the height of the upright, the better the sound will be (due to longer string length).
<edit> Given the description of the piano as "stinky" I would likely take a pass on it. A piano needs stable room conditions, and decent care, or at least something better than neglect. The odds of it being in really playable condition are not good.
Note that I know just enough about pianos to be somewhat dangerous.
The weather here (in the summer) has reached 115-118 regularly and in the garage, it's got to be at least 10-15 degrees hotter.....so, I'll just dismiss that ad above. I'm so glad I posted this before venturing on my own......(I appreciate all the replies). It looks like I'll need a "professional" or someone who knows the intricacies of the piano to take with me when buying a used upright. The main reason we wanted an acoustic upright is to have fairly decent "home piano" that's tuned and has a nice tone......and of course for the nostalgic feeling of having an acoustic wooded instrument for all to enjoy. However, I do like Janet's suggestion on getting a digital piano as that'll be basically no maintenance and I can get a decent brand new one. In the digital piano's, which brands are generally better than the rest (quality and long term reliability-wise)? Roland? Yamaha?
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 12:40:09
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I've found that failing to tune the piano provides an easy excuse when playing it badly. It also provides an opportunity for people to quote the title of a certain album by REO Speedwagon. 
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Karyn
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/08 18:28:39
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I bought my eldest daughter a Casio similar to this. I'm no expert pianist, but IMO you'd need to spend over ten times the amount on a "real" piano to get one that sounds/plays/feels even half as good.
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Beagle
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Re:Need help on buying an Upright Piano
2011/08/09 06:50:25
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IMO, the Casios FEEL best, with Yamaha graded weight hammer action 2nd. I have a CASIO PX-3 stage piano.
however, the casios don't sound as good as the yamahas to me.
I strongly suggest you try out several models in a store before buying one. that would even be good advice if you decided to go with acoustic as well, although with acoustic, I'd have a professional check it out before spending very much money on it.
I love the feel of my Casio - but unless I'm just running a quick practice I always run MIDI to a yamaha or to Kontakt for sound.
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