Helpful ReplyNeed help with Cakewalk setup on new computer

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rodreb
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2018/08/17 08:15:13 (permalink)

Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer

(I have a thread about this in the Computers forum but am not getting very many views so, I thought I would try it here. I didn't know how to move it here or delete the other one. If double posting is not allowed, please Admin, delete one.)
 
New computer = Dell XPS - i7 8700 6 core - 16 gb 2666 RAM - two 2 Tb 7200 RPM hdd's - Windows 10 - Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 & Octapre
When I hit play, I get the spinning blue thing for about a second. 
The first time I set up looping points it runs to the end of the loop and stops for about a second before returning to the start of the loop. This only happens the first time, after that all looping acts normal.
Some (not all) plugins cause gapping when assigning to a track during playback.
While editing tracks, everything is sluggish acting. I'm stumped.
Is this normal behavior for CbB? I am a LONGTIME Sonar user and these behaviors started showing up near the end of Platinum for me (On my old, much lower powered computer). I do not remember any of this happening in earlier versions of Platinum. (BTW, I also have Studio One and, everything works fine on it but, I really prefer to use Cakewalk)
Any thoughts from anyone?



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#1
Keano66
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/17 11:37:43 (permalink)
Can you increase your ram? I use 32 gigs with mine.
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martins guit
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/17 11:40:24 (permalink)
what driver-mode are you using?

 
 apologize for my english
 
martin
 
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windows 10 x64bit,i7-6700,12G-ram-DDR-4
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#3
Zargg
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/17 11:51:44 (permalink)
Hi. Which driver mode do you use?
Any plugins in the project that could be causeing the latency with a lookahead function?
Are you up to date with driver updates on your new machine?
That's all I had for now.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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#4
rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/17 17:15:51 (permalink)
I am using ASIO.
No, I cannot afford to add RAM at the moment.
As far as I know, I have updated all drivers, programs, plugins, etc.
I will try loading a project with absolutely no plugins and see what happens. As it is, if I toggle off all plugins, it still does it.
Also, LAtencyMon tells me everything is fine for running audio.
Thanks for the suggestions!
The reason I bought this new computer is because this same thing was happening on my old computer which led me to believe it was failing (It was a six year old i5 with half the RAM of this new one). So, now the same problem is still happening on this new machine. Very frustrating.



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#5
scook
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/17 21:03:10 (permalink)
One thing that can slow project startup is an excessively large "Prepare using nnn Millisecond Buffers"
 
It could also be something about the audio driver.  Try different driver modes and versions of the driver.
#6
stickman393
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/17 22:42:25 (permalink)
RAM is not the issue. My i7-8700 showed up today and I am in the process of installing a better PSU and moving my drives over. It will be a clean Windows 10 Pro 64 bit environment and I'll need to install a bunch of stuff before I can test audio recording in CbB.
 
ASIO should be fine. What you are describing is NOT NORMAL.
Are you testing with a clean empty project?
Also, pay attention to anything scook says.
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chris.r
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/17 23:17:50 (permalink)
Rodreb, when I was reading your post I had the sense of my own "Studio One issue". And then I read you also have Studio One. In my case, I had same Sonar behaviour when I run it after I have used Studio One, it's like Studio One has left "something" behind in the background. If I restart windows and do not use Studio One, only Sonar, then it's all fine.
 
Can't help anything more. But thought to post here, maybe it will help to draw your troubleshooting in the right direction. I just learned to not use one DAW after another.
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rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/18 00:09:07 (permalink)
stickman393 - I always listen to scook! No, I am not testing with a clean, empty project. I am testing with recently recorded tracks. I will try with a clean, empty project.
chris.r - Actually, I have not used Studio One on this new computer yet besides just checking to see if this issue was present in it.
scook - I was under the assumption the MIDI settings only affected MIDI. I do not run MIDI at all. I was also under the assumption that ASIO is always the best driver (That seems to be what we are always told.) Of course, I will try these things, though.



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#9
scook
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/18 00:21:28 (permalink)
"Prepare using nnn Millisecond Buffers" delays the start of project play by the size of the buffer. As a rule a buffer must be full before the data is sent down stream. The default is 250 but many increase the value by 2 to 5x.
 
Generally ASIO is preferred. My suggestion is to determine if there is a driver issue. May even want to try the internal sound chip if it is available.
#10
methodman3000
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/18 02:11:47 (permalink)
Cakewalk uses your computer  soundcard to delineate its inputs.  I am using the sound on my motherboard because it actually sounds good.  And is a pretty high quality card.  Look at the Sound Settings or anything that affects sound in Control Panel.  Make sure you set up your inputs from there.  ASIO4All  is ideal, but it may be easier to get it working in MME mode.  But you have to use the Control Panel programs for your input.  Sonar reads those.   As far as 8 Gigs it should work well as long as you don't have a ton of programs running in the background.  I have 12 on this machine and everything seems to run fine.  
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rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/18 07:40:56 (permalink)
In Preferences>Audio Data the Global Audio Folder points to C:\Cakewalk Projects\Audio Data. That is not what I use. I have all my audio data going to F:\ song name\Audio. Should these match? I checked, the location on C: is empty. Is this a possible conflict?
Also, in Device Manager, in Properties>Events for my audio drive that I installed, it says "Device not migrated". Is this cause for concern?
post edited by rodreb - 2018/08/18 08:30:12



ROD

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#12
scook
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/18 16:27:37 (permalink)
rodreb
In Preferences>Audio Data the Global Audio Folder points to C:\Cakewalk Projects\Audio Data. That is not what I use. I have all my audio data going to F:\ song name\Audio. Should these match? I checked, the location on C: is empty. Is this a possible conflict?

The Global Audio folder default is "C:\Cakewalk Projects\Audio Data." On startup, the program will actually reset the Global Audio folder to the default if the path provided is unreachable. This used to be a problem for those wanting to use a Global Audio on a removable drive. It is rarely an issue with internal drives. I like to have the Global Audio folder on the same drive as the active projects. Not sure if it matters any more. It is definitely not the cause of the problem described in the OP.
 
rodreb
Also, in Device Manager, in Properties>Events for my audio drive that I installed, it says "Device not migrated". Is this cause for concern?


Could be. There are a lot of hits on "Device not migrated" on Google. I will defer to Windows experts about the this error.
#13
rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/18 16:35:13 (permalink)
Thanks, scook. Any idea how to migrate the drive?



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#14
mettelus
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/19 04:47:42 (permalink)
Do you still have the old machine available? When I loaded my new machine I actually launched SONAR on both so that I could walk the dog on each page in preferences. With all of the tweaks done over time, a new installation will lose them which is why a side-by-side comparison is easiest to verify.
 
I did catch one LatencyMon post (I think it was yours), which showed Automatic Network Discovery being on. Type "Manage Advanced Sharing Settings" in the Windows Search, and you will see "Network Discovery" under each section (Private, Guest or Public). Be sure to check "Turn off network discovery," which is a ping the system does every 3-4 seconds. That particular "feature" is the #1 latency issue IME - if you are adding things to the computer, manual is safer than having Windows trying to connect to everything it sees every 4 seconds of its life.
 
This item is not an easy task, and more for reference. Definitely start with Task Manager as mentioned above, but keep the following in mind. On a new machine, "Services" often need to be scrutinized. Unless something is required to run the machine, "Automatic" startup is not recommended. Most of these should show in the task manager; however, some are hidden and will only show up in Services (can type "Services" in the startup search). Right-clicking services that look odd and chaning startup type to "Manual" will force them to only launch when you launch them as a user. All of Adobe's services fall into this category, yet Adobe is also religious about resetting them to "Automatic" as well. All apps that have "automatic updates" or similar should be manual.

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Pragi
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/19 10:45:57 (permalink)
Another cause for your issue could be the
Firewire card and /or the chipset .
For example if you have a PCi (without e) card
(with  TI Chipset ?)
the newer mainboards don´t have original pci slots ,
this are reduced Pci - e Slots which are often causing issues.
#16
rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/20 00:01:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Pragi 2018/08/20 08:17:03
Pragi - Mine is a Siig, PCIe firewire card with TI chipset.
mettelus - Yes, I do have the old system right beside the new one for the time being and am trying to duplicate most settings. I will try turning off the Network Discovery.
I am concerned about the "Device Not Migrated" thing in the Device Manager>Events tab for my audio hard drive. I just have no idea if that's a BAD bad thing or not. I've never seen that before. I tried to update the driver for that hard drive but, it say the one I have is the best for that device. I read somewhere that I should disable the drive then re-enable it to force Windows to re install the driver?? I get scared trying things that I know absolutely nothing about!! I don't know what the consequences may be.
 



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#17
rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/20 05:30:32 (permalink)
It just dawned on me.... I replaced a 6 year old i5 with 8 gb RAM with a new i7 with 16 gb RAM and can basically see no difference in performance. Just doesn't seem right. 



ROD

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#18
Pragi
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/20 07:25:04 (permalink)
@ Rod,
 hope you will get it fixed, but don´t have any idea how.
 
It´s also interesting for me cause one day in the future I
will have to look for a new box - hopefully with a configuration which allows me
to work with the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 - love the sound of this  audio interface.
 
#19
rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/20 07:32:31 (permalink)
Pragi - Yes, I really like the Saffire Pro 40, too. Interestingly, everything works great with Studio One but, I just don't like the way it looks or feels compared to Cakewalk.
Also, these are all the same issues I had on my old computer. I thought it had to be the old computer (6 years old). Now I'm starting to question that. I assumed when I got this machine things would be greatly improved, performance-wise. Sadly, I've seen no noticeable difference.



ROD

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#20
Pragi
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/20 08:16:22 (permalink)
Any how , thank you for sharing  your experience so far -
giving a lot of helpful  infos about the firewire card , DAW aso.
Hope that your helpfulness will get paid back.
 
Pragi
 
#21
rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/20 20:01:01 (permalink)
Thinking of, maybe, reformatting my audio drive to see if that might cure the "Device Not Migrated" issue. (Because, basically I'm running out of things to try) I am assuming the drive should be formatted in NTFS, not Fat 32? Is that correct. 



ROD

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#22
joakes
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/20 21:48:28 (permalink)
FWIW i had this problem/message when using my Boss GT100 multi pedal with W10 creators update in April

Tonelab (the software you use to alter the settings on the unit) would not rcognise or shake hands with the hardware. I’m using W10 prof. However on my laptop, running W10 Home, the unit worked perfectly, with the same update. Go figure ...... !

So, what fixed the issue for me, is you need to go into Privacy settings and make sure the mic options are turned ON. Then reboot. Creators edition, for whatever reason, defaults it OFF for some people. If you google you’ll find you’re not alone with this message.

This may (or may not) help you !

Cheers,
Jerry

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#23
Pragi
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/21 07:18:02 (permalink)
Rod, 
have you tried to put the firewire card into another pci-e slot?
Sure you already tried to enable/disable the onboard sound chip, or ?
 
regards
post edited by Pragi - 2018/08/21 21:07:58
#24
rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/23 18:04:22 (permalink)
So, at this point, I have tried everything I can and here's where I am....
Everything "works" but, whenever I press Play, I get the spinning blue disk with about a one second hesitation before play actually starts. When I set up a loop, the first time through, at the end of the loop, it stops play and hesitates (with the spinning blue disk) for about one second. After that first time through, the loop plays fine.
This is the same behavior I had on my old computer (which is what led me to getting a new computer).
The constants between my old computer and the new computer are Cakewalk by BandLab and, my firewire card, which I transferred from my old computer to my new one. (NOTE: The firewire card is a Siig unit with a TI chipset) 
All my issues started about six months ago on my old computer. It was over six years old and I just assumed it was the culprit, that's why I got this new computer.
Unless anybody has any better ideas, I guess I will have to buy a new firewire card and see if it makes any difference.
Oh, also, Studio One works just fine on both computers. No lag, no hesitation, works perfectly. I just REALLY prefer Cakewalk to Studio One.



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#25
scook
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/23 18:32:25 (permalink)
If the problem appeared at a certain time, one thing to try is an uninstall of CbB and clean install of the last known working version (or older) of Platinum. My guess is the problem will still be there. If it is, this points to a driver, OS and/or hardware issue.
#26
rodreb
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/23 19:05:47 (permalink)
scook - This is so frustrating. I even went so far as to buy a new computer to try to resolve this issue. Yes, I do believe this all started right near the end of Platinum (I have lost track since it's been going on so long).
This being a new computer, everything is, obviously, a fresh install.
The driver for the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 is still the same version as before. As I said, I transferred my old firewire card. (I wanted to buy a new one but, my Wife said I had already spent too much$$ Ha ha!!) I guess my next thing is to buy the new firewire card and see if that fixes things.
 



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#27
mettelus
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/23 19:06:46 (permalink)
If Studio One works fine, it is not your interface. Don't waste money on a new one just to troubleshoot.

I forget if you had tried doing a global FX bypass (E) for troubleshooting? It seems you have eliminated disk/audio buffer possibilities, but you may have a plugin with lookahead doing something.

One other note, I had to back out Saffire MixControl to 3.4 when I went to Win10, but that issue was present with everything.

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#28
Steev
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/23 19:48:30 (permalink)
Hmmmm, failure to migrate, slow data transfer from disc to memory,, this kind of reads like......… You may quite possibly be experiencing the first stages of mechanical hard drive failure with your audio drive.... (?)
 
You did mention transfer these problems over from your older system.
 
And you should also experience a very noticeable increase in speed and power from a 6 year old i5 to a current tech i7.
 
 

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#29
eikelbijter
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Re: Need help with Cakewalk setup on new computer 2018/08/23 19:53:19 (permalink)
rodreb
It just dawned on me.... I replaced a 6 year old i5 with 8 gb RAM with a new i7 with 16 gb RAM and can basically see no difference in performance. Just doesn't seem right. 


The RAM most likely has NOTHING to do with it. I've done 100+ track Sonar projects and have never had one that uses more than 2GB. Secondly, a 6 year old i5 is not that much slower than a new i7; it's gonna be more power efficient, but only modestly faster.
 
To me, it sounds like what's happening is that the wait you're experiencing is Sonar cueing up all the audio files to start playback. Depending on how many take-lanes there are per track, it could be way more than even the number f tracks you're trying to play, which brings me to the most important thing here:
 
You upgraded your CPU but you're using spinning hard drives and not SSDs! That's a terrible way to go, your old i5 with a pair of SSDs would blow the pants off your new system. Especially if there's fragmentation on the HDD, having to cue up many different WAV files would take 10 times as long as on an SSD.
 
In the least, you should try adding an SSD as a project drive and running the projects from there. Ideally you want one as a system drive too.
 
R

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