Need opinions on an issue with a paying client

I have a situation with a client that I would like to ask opinions and advice on. Since I am involved as the audio engineer, I may be biased. I will take painstaking measures to just stick to facts and leave my bias aside.
I agreed to record, edit, mix, and master 3 songs for a 5 piece band (drums, bass, vocals, 2 guitars) for a flat fee, no hourly fees, just a single project fee.
Even though the fee is low, I agreed to begin work and move forward allowing the band to make payments along the way.
On the day of basic tracks, I received 32.5% of the total fee. I was very happy and proceeded to complete the tracking of the basic tracks.
In the following weeks (working around everyone’s schedules) I completed the entire overdub process.
I then completed all the editing, still not having received one cent since the basic tracking day.
After the editing was completed, I stopped working on the project. Several months went by and I heard nothing from the band, received no payments, nothing. So I did not move forward either.
Now, on Sunday, March 10^th, 2013, just 3 days ago, I received a payment that when combined with the first payment, equals a total of 60% of the total flat fee.
The band asks if I could deliver one complete song while they come up with the rest of the payments. I agreed and started working on the mix of that one song.
Later that Sunday I presented a first version mix of one song. The band went over it and gave me a list of the mix notes. Things are now going back and forth as I tweak the mix to everyone’s liking.
I took yesterday off to handle some family issues. I then received a text from the band indicating that one of the members thinks things are taking too long and is now questioning the possibility of getting the raw tracks from me and mixing somewhere else.
At this point I won’t tell you guys what I think about this because I want to hear your opinions about it without being influenced by anything else but the facts.
 
So, what do you guys think?
-Charles

I don't work in the studio for pay..... but my take on this from running a business and dealing with customers is as follows. 

You set a price to do the whole job on 3 songs.  

They are slow payers. 

Then when you deliver one to them they don't like it because they pick it all to pieces and ask you to "fix" what they don't like. 

Now they think you are working too slowly.

they are wanting the raw tracks to the songs so they can now have someone else mix and master.  

OK... here's my take.  First, are you happy with the 60% they have paid as payment in full for recording them? 

If so, yeah, send them the raw, unedited tracks. Or if you want to be nice, you can send the raw but edited tracks. I would do one of the two depending on how nice they were about firing you. 

It sounds like they would be a real PITA to work with on the 3 songs. 

Of course, if you have this in writing as Bat mentioned, you should have them sign some sort of release from the original contract (we call them change orders in the business I'm in) and it should indicate the amount paid already as full payment for raw tracks to 3 songs. Hand over the raw tracks on a disc and wish them well.

What a mess. 

Cut your losses. Let them walk away and don't give them the stems. Only copies of the master should be given in which case it seems they didn't even get to that stage. All this should have been in the terms. 

Masters? Studios can also charge extra per-copy (masters, not to be confused with mastering costs, hourly rate)! 


In General - to whomever happens to stumble on this thread:  Every professional recording studio I've been involved with charge by the hour and usually IIRC it's up-front deposit and then paid in full on the day just prior to the session, or in advance (optional)

For all bookings, copies of receipt/invoice along with cancelation policy must be included; outlining in clear terms that at least 48 hours notice of cancellations must be given should the client request a refund in full or for the deposit, or simply wishes to change the day and length (hours) of the session.

Most studios have a 'minimum hourly rate' for example, 4 hours for multi-track recordings, 1 hour for mastering. Some studios may offer discounts for longer sessions and/or well in advanced bookings.

Some studios may also be generous enough to allow up to 2 hours over-time to get the job done at no cost to the client. A courtesy gesture I guess LOL

In clear terms; setup time is at the expense of the client (included in the hourly rate)! That is why it's advised that clients have their act and their gear together before making a booking.  I've had my fair share of experience over the years to know, NOT to run a pro rec studio business LOL!!  There is just too much involved; opened for all types of bookings, long hours, staying up-to-date, cleaning, maintenance and being competitive are just some examples.  

Standard or Advance Sessions:  Some studios also charge more (hourly rate) for additional studio gear.  A request that is not included in the standard booking.  I've seen this arrangement done because sometimes gear requests for more expensive brands seem so extravagant and sometime not necessary but just to please a stubborn client LOL.  But there is a workaround for the struggling studio and that is to hire gear from a third-party (pro gear hire) cost are weighed in the booking fee. 

My experiences are based in Sydney, Australia. I have no idea if the offers and terms are exactly the same elsewhere. And I have not been involved in the business for a long time = things may have changed since. 

Hi Charles This can be an issue for sure and I have encountered it a few times. Here are a few ideas that I work by anyway that might help in helping you what to do next.

Firstly I never just do anything like that for a fee. Yes you can work out a decent fee. Give yourself a decent hourly rate and divide that into the fee and see how many hours are involved. I stipulate that once those hours are exceeded then extra costs are involved and hourly from then on. 

By charging a decent amount to start with you actually avoid most of the clients you would not want to work with in the first place. You will be left with good people who basically won't do the sort of stuff your current clients are doing now. And they will pay and pay properly and regularly.

They need to complete all payments before you give anything and I mean anything to them from now on. 

Why would they take the raw sessions and go somewhere else to mix. If they are going to spend even more money doing that why can't they stay with you, pay you at least the original fee plus extra to do a great mix which I am sure you can do. Try and talk them around. (unless you seriously want them out of your life all together)

They have messed you around, not you messing them around. 

If you really want them out of your life forever then give then what they want and have no further contact with them again. Think of it as a learning curve and a positive experience.

Just make sure in future if you are negotiating fee structures make sure that fee relates to HOURS and if those hours are looking like they are going to go well over, further payment will be required. I don't mind a few hours here and there going over that is cool. But if it is looking like a lot of hours over then extra payment should be necessary. 

I have been caught many times. I am ruthless now. I charge a lot, top rate, high hourly rate. I am very very very good at what I do. Period. People have to and will pay for it. I get the best people coming to me to do this sort of stuff. Great musicians, great payers etc.. That is what you want.

Danny Danzi will probably have some good info on this. I hope he chimes in.

This is a little tough.  I assume you did not really get a contract in writing so...... try talking them into finishing, and deliver them the best mix you can deliver- one they will want to show off.  Ends upo with good PR for you.  The worst they can say about you is that it might have been a bit slow, but they can't argue with the sound quality (which is what it's all about in the long run.)

If that can't be done, I myself would give them a final mix of the tune they "finished" (whether they like it or not), keep 50% of the total fee (refund other 10%), send them on their merry way, and make them feel good that they only had to pay 50% because you were probably more than 50% complete with the effort required.

Just a thought.

Good luck!

Jeff Evans: 


They have messed you around, not you messing them around

I am very very very good at what I do. Period. 


About 24 years ago in regards to a booking at a studio my band recorded at. The owner and engineer was Jeff (can't remember his last name.) The studio had just been newly built, 1988, Sydney, Australia. 

Anyway, it was a 12.hrs booking, the band was well prepared and all our performances done (better than expected) as we got to mixdown and had finished way ahead of schedule and happy with the results. At that point we decided to have a break, get a bite to eat and then load-out.... 

When we returned from our break; Jeff nagged us about making his own 'creative alterations' to the instrumentation, he (Jeff) wanted to add his own 'creative input' to the song, record some additional work. Initially out of curiosity the band agreed to give it a shot, three to four hours later a remix was done and then the band took a 15 minute break.... 

During that break the lead singer, myself, the girls (singers) and others in the band looked at one another and very promptly and unanimously agreed that the re-mix along with Jeff's creative input was not suitable at all, totally different musical direction, we all definitely didn't like it at all.... 

We went back into the studio and asked Jeff to bring up the original mix and finish off the session. He disagreed, clearly he was not happy about our decision but the band said no, we want the original mix please. (afterall, it's the band that paid for the session, not him.  The song was co-written by the lead singer and I, his name was also Greg, it was a Greg and Greg collaboration  

From that day on I never accepted any studio bookings unless the studio staff had good solid references and not trying to muscle-in on the writers creative work(s) at my expense. 

I don't doubt 'you're very good at what you do Jeff' and I wish you all the best.  Again please NOTE: Jeff this person I'm talking about is not you. He was based in Sydney, Australia at the time. You're based in Melborne. It's just that your first name is the same, that's all. No offense intended. 

I did check out your site and there are some things you could do to improve it (add to it) overall design and for example; Here and check out the other pages.  Phil's site is well designed AND I can honestly claim that he is highly respected in the music business. He truly is a genius and his exemplary work is not just flawless but well above most other studio owners I know. 

For Aussie bands based in Sydney, Australia, I highly recommend Electric Avenue Studios: 

If dem clients werz mines. Day be swimming with da fishes with 
Bin Ladin and their brick feets. Forghettaboutit! You know what I am saying? Capiche!?

Tough call here Charles. Everyone runs their business differently while trying to keep everyone happy. One thing you can't ever do, is set fee's where people pay over time. However, you can always have it to where they pay you for what you do that day...and that's what you SHOULD do. Some rules of thumb I use.

1. Communicate with all clients both by phone, email, and of course in person. Get a feel for them before you do business. Schedule a meeting between them and you before any work is done. Call it a client interview, meeting, plan of action or whatever else. You should know in 10-15 minutes whether they will be good to work with or not.

I've stopped so many jobs from taking place this way. I've stopped even more through email. When someone keeps asking "can you do it cheaper" questions or seems to be acting like a tight @ss when I go out of my way to give them better service than anyone alive, they insult my intelligence. No one will get the service I give them for the prices I charge. My time and experience are worth something.

As soon as they upset me and make me think twice, it's over. I came into this world without them, I'll leave that way. I love my job, I love servicing my clients and live this stuff 24/7. When it looks as though I will not enjoy the experience due ot a tude or someone coming into MY world being too forceful or not as "human" as I'd like, I walk. I got people banging down my door to work with me, I will not settle for less. If the Lord takes those that are banging down my door away, I still will not settle for less. I'll get a new job before I'll eat someone's slop for the sake of making money.

2. I work, they pay. If we agreed that they pay in increments, this means each time I work, they pay. Each time we get together, I work, they pay.

3. No one gets any CDR's or rough mix files until they pay for what was done that day.

4. If I do the work and you don't like my work, I still did the work. I could have done someone else's project. I will try to accommodate, but if they are still unhappy and don't want to work with me, they still owe me for the time I put in. This is non-negotiable and there will not be a refund EVER. The client knew this going into it. I have a 3 strike rule. I work on something, they don't like it, I fix it again to their specs. If they still don't like it, it's a set fee per hour.

5. Huge jobs/net jobs: Half down on the entire job. They trust me giving me the first half, once I finish the job....I trust them for the second half. Once I'm done, the rest of the money is due.

6. Releasing the audio so they can take it somewhere else: This is totally your call. They own the songs, you own the media as well as the production unless they pay for it. If you wish to release them, they supply the hard disc/flash drive. If it's a matter of pasting the files onto a drive where it takes 10-15 minutes...go for it and don't charge them a dime. Get them out of your place. Just don't give the tunes away unless you feel you were compensated enough for the creation of them.

Any paste's lasting 30 minutes or longer, require a fee. In 30 minutes time, you can pre-master a song for an album. In an hour, you can literally pre-master and master a complete song for the most part. Time is money. Be as nice as you can, but remember, the nicer you are, the more people seem to take advantage of your good nature. I'm fair but I'm firm.

Anyway, hope some of this helps and you resolve the issue. If not, just get them out of there so they don't cause you any more grief. However, if by chance any of their gripes are legit with you...and you re-evaluate all that's transpired and find maybe you are sort of at fault for some of this (not saying you are, I'm just making you think a little) then by all means try to strike up a meeting and see if there is a way to make everyone happy. Communication is the key...and it's usually best to communicate with everyone instead of hearing from one band member or hearing something said that came from another band member. You'll be surprised at how face to face communication changes things up. Good luck Charles!

-Danny