Need some tips for playing the organ

OK, I realized I can just extend the notes in PRV and make it work.  But I'm still curious about this. 

If you are using a keyboard to get an organ sound, I would just go ahead and use the sustain pedal.  There are no rules in music, if it sounds like you want it to, then it is good.
 
Secondly, I watched a lot of organ playing in my day and noticed that the lowest notes are actually played with the feet (on a pedal board of about three octaves located on the floor under the keyboard proper).  I would often see the organist play heel on one note, pivot to toe on the next, and so forth in order to get a smooth transition from note to note.

All good ideas, guys.  Thanks.  Yes, I remember seeing organists playing with their feet--I'd forgotten about that little trick.  Albert, yes, I need to listen to more organ music.  I've got one in mind that reminds me of something on Phantom of the Opera.  It just doesn't sound right on the piano.  And the problem with trying new things (like I keep doing) is that I never get good at one thing.  Maybe some day.  lol

Sustain the left hand only?  That's a thought.  The only way I can think of doing it would be to record that in a different track.  Totallly do-able though.  Butch, the problem with using the sustain is that it sustained too many notes.  Doing it with PRV makes it sounds right (to me anyway), but like Albert said, that may take away from the live feel.  Maybe I should post the few measures I have and get some feedback.
 
Thanks so much you guys!  This is great...I post a question at night and magically it's answered the next morning!  (now if only I had time to work on it today!) 

The organ was my first instrument and is still my favorite, especially for ad hoc jam sessions. Over the years every synth I bought had to do a decent organ in order to qualify for consideration. And every one of them fell short. One day, while playing a real Hammond B-3, I had an epiphany: synthesizing authentic-sounding organ sounds is easy - it's really all in the playing style and the keyboard itself that facilitates and necessitates that style.

Everything is predicated on the fact that an organ has no sustain. Let go of a note and it stops dead. No other instrument is limited in that way. Even on a piano, you get some ring after the key is lifted, even without using the sustain pedal. But the organ is intrinsicly a staccato instrument.

Consequently, there are two basic ways to play an organ: capitalize on the abruptness and use it rhythmically (as with reggae, ska and sometimes gospel, or most things by Keith Emerson) or disguise the lack of sustain by playing everything legato or with overlaps (Billie Preston, Booker T Jones, Jon Lord).

The latter technique is aided by the fact that on an organ with a Leslie, there is almost no such thing as a discordant combination of notes! Listen to the organ solo in "Hold Your Head Up" by Rod Argent. It's got intentional half-step combinations that would make your teeth grate if played on a piano.

Intentional slop is a common technique with organ playing. You just don't worry about accuracy as much. Accidentally hitting an adjacent key actually adds texture, so sometimes you do it on purpose. Palm glissandos are an example - you slide the palm of your hand over the front of the keyboard, wildly mashing whatever notes it happens to land on. As long as you ultimately land on the target note, it's all good.

This is where the keyboard itself comes into play. "Waterfall" keys are designed for this kind of intentional slop. Organ keys also travel less distance than piano keys and require less pressure, which encourages fast playing. Coupled with a lower regard for accuracy, it encourages very fast playing.

All of this is literally painful to do on a piano-style keyboard. The square keys with their long throws will take the skin off your knuckles with many common organ techniques. If you really want to play an organ properly, you need at least a light (unweighted) synth action if not a real organ keyboard.

Organ-style MIDI controllers do exist, but for some reason they are pricey and hard to find. Ultimately, I ended up buying a faux-Hammond (the digital version by Suzuki) not for the sound but for the keyboard. Here's a song I played it on with Mark Wessels, Randy Prier and Jonbuoy.

Nice playing Bit(and everyone else)!!
 
What are you using for the organ sounds on that?  I've got an EMU Proteus B3, but I've never been able to get that nice distorted percussion feel.
 
Ken

Drewfx1--thanks...I'll look into that.

Dave, I was hoping you'd pop in.  I remember that song, but now I'm listening with new ears of course.  :-)  Thanks for shedding a ton of light on the subject.  There was an older man who used to play the organ in church when I was little.  I was quite young, IIRC, but not too young to know that not too many church organists played like THAT!  I wish I could remember more distinctly what he did.   Anyway, thanks so much!  And even though you make it sound like it's easy, your work is still quite impressive. :-) 

Herb...ouch!

David...yeah, that's about what I was going to do!  LOL.  Wow--he's incredible!!!  Thanks.

Hey Janet!

Organ proper (if there be such a thing);

My inferior wisdom:

1) Re-read Bit's post

2) Try different organs (Dimpro and/or its subsidiaries ... Hammonds, Rock, Church, etc., EWQLSO has 1 fab church organ); they require a bit of verb.

3) With your sensitive precise style you may want to get more expressionistic and sloppy in a couple bars: Many steroidal organs are deliberately off-key.

4) Depending on your adventure: Consider using 2+ organ patches (which I'm doing now); one organ might be purist (your fav) ... the other organ might be a Dimpro organ: sickening/distorted/nasty ... to give the listener some counter-emotion.

5) I think you already know, the bass-cleft needs only 1 note to fill the bass-line (your melody, rhythm, counterpoint, counterrhythm, and/or, the root or 5th of your rhythm cord ... like a bass guitar)

use an expression pedal

I forgot to mention this. Good call, NoKey. The expression pedal is very important to organists, as it helps to make up for the lack of intrinsic dynamics in the instrument. With a little practice, you can get into the habit of working your foot for emphasis, just like using the sustain pedal on a piano becomes second nature after awhile.

You need a good one, though. It has to be smooth with a long throw. The original Hammond expression pedal had quite a long throw on it, requiring you to actually stretch the muscles in your ankle to push it to full throttle.

What I do not know is how to incorporate an expression pedal into an ITB setup. Mine, of course, just plugs into the back of my Hammond and it's an analog controller. Perhaps there is a MIDI expression pedal out there?

EDIT: wait a sec, you play a Motif, don't you? I believe that has an expression pedal jack on it.

Thanks again, everyone.  Please don't let my silence seem like I don't care about this.  I'm finding that summer's busier than I imagined.  Since it's dark for 3 - 3 1/2 hours after I get off work, I can work outside until 8:30. Then there's housework until about 9:30.  Consequently, I haven't even turned on my DAW since I posted this. :-(  I'm hoping the whole summer won't be like this.  (I don't think it will.)  Anyway, valuable tips.  I'll try to post a clip of what I've done so far to see if it's believable. 

OK, here is what I've come up with so far.  No mixing involved...I just exported the midi and the Dim Pro Hammond Jazz organ (which is, AFAIK, the best I've got.) 

How's it sound? 

Wanted to throw out a big "thanks" to Mr. Bitflipper for that post way up above, it was very helpfull, especially coming from a real organ player.

I'll check your sample out in a little, got some stuff in the headphones right now that I really need to pay attention to.

Later
Albert

Bach Fugue?  I don't even know what that is, although I've probably heard and been influenced by a few.  I had something totally different in mind with this (a movie I watched recently.) 

Anyway, so the bottom line is, I have to get drunk to play this properly?  That could be interesting.  Thanks again for the tips. :-) 

I worked on this again and have almost decided to just go with the piano sound for this.  Having a proessional organist in the house is a little intimidating.  That, and having to get drunk to play it right.    Actually, I figured out a way to make it sound good with the piano.  Maybe I'll try the organ when it doesn't have to solol.

Thanks again, NoKey.  If they're all the same level, that will be the first time in my life I haven't been accused of pounding the keys!  lol. 

Great tips there.  Thank you!

As usual, I figured I could do something I know almost nothing about and make it work without trying.  LOL.  But then again, if I would have realized how hard this whole recording thing would be, I might not have tried it.  Most days I'm glad I stuck it out.  :-)

We'll see what happens with my organ playing.  Thanks again!

Thanks, Michael!  :-)