New DAW PC Build

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fireberd
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2018/10/30 13:17:48 (permalink)

New DAW PC Build

I'm considering giving my current DAW desktop to my daughter for her home business as she has an old Q6600 CPU machine that's on its last leg.  That means I have to build a new DAW desktop.  I've seen comments about the 8700K and 8086K CPU's on other forum threads. But what about a motherboard with Thunderbolt?  I see some that have it as a PCIe card add in, but is there any with it totally built in that does not need an added card?  I don't have Thunderbolt now but who knows in the future. 
 
Thanks/Jack
 

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
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#1

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    DaGeek
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/10/30 13:48:59 (permalink)
    I recently built mine and for those 2 chips the only two motherboards that had Thunderbolt 3 support were the ASUS Prime X299-A and the GIGABYTE Z370 AORUS GAMING 7-OP LGA 1151. Neither had the card included or Thunderbolt built in. I went with the GIGABYTE which also included 32GB OPTANE memory which I found to be a pain to configure especially since my first one failed and had to RMA with Intel. There are 2 versions of the motherboard, one with Optane (-OP) and one without. At the time I bought it the -OP was actually cheaper. Once working, it really does speed things up. I also went with the 8086k based on comments/hints made by Jim.

    Cakewalk by BandLab | Sonar Platinum | Gigabyte Z370 AORUS GAMING 7-OP  | Intel  Core i7 8086k CPU | 16 GB Memory | NVIDIA GeForce GT 640 | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit | Focusrite Forte
     
    #2
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/10/30 14:26:31 (permalink)
    You'll find that most current generation motherboards do not have the Thunderbolt-3 controller onboard.
    ASRock, Gigabyte, and Asus all have moved to an optional AIC (add-in-controller).
     
    Make sure the motherboard specifically has a Thunderbolt-3 header.
    Make sure the BIOS specifically supports the Thunderbolt-3 AIC.
    Make sure you can source the specific Thunderbolt-3 AIC.  There are times when stock is hard to find.
     
    Depending on the Thunderbolt audio interface (most are still Thunderbolt-2), you'll need a Thunderbolt-3 to Thunderbolt-2 adapter.  Several audio interface companies (including Presonus) recommend the StarTech adapter.  The Apple adapter is about $20 less, is easy to source, and has worked in every scenario we've tested (lots of different laptop/desktop configurations).  The Apple adapter works just fine with the Presonus Quantum (I'm running that combination here).

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #3
    fireberd
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/10/30 19:51:19 (permalink)
    Thanks for the info.  I looked at ASUS and Gigabyte.  They have motherboards with Thunderbolt headers that require the PCIe card.  Thanks for the heads up on the BIOS.  
     
    The ASUS Prime 370A supports Thunderbolt 3
     
    I have an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter, that was give to me.  Its been in my "junk" drawer as I didn't have anything to use it with.
     
     
    post edited by fireberd - 2018/10/30 21:20:51

    "GCSG Productions"
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    #4
    stratman70
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/02 17:53:25 (permalink)
    I have the Asus Prime Z370 A motherboard. It is rock solid and easy to manipulate. Sonar Splat and CWbyBL runn smoothly.
     
    I have not made use of the thunderbolt part but knowing it's there, like you mentioned. is one of the reasons I bought this board. Lots of options and also gt a live person for support the first time I called.

     
     
    #5
    fireberd
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/02 18:21:55 (permalink)
    Stratman, I've also been looking at the Prime 390A.  About the same as the  370 except will also support 9th Gen  CPU's. $20 difference in price.
     

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
    Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
    Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
    ISRC Registered
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    #6
    fireberd
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/02 18:55:52 (permalink)
    I just got a newsletter and one of the articles was on a new Gigabyte Z390 motherboard and it has built in native Thunderbolt with 2 40GB TB3 ports on the rear motherboard I/O panel.
    https://www.tweaktown.com/news/63699/gigabyte-details-awesome-new-z390-designare-motherboard/index.html
     

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
    Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
    Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
    ISRC Registered
    Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
    #7
    stratman70
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/02 19:47:40 (permalink)
    I have used Asus MB's for decades just because they work for me and are not overly expensive. My other choices if I had to would be MSI or Gigabyte.
     
    But I didn't want to spend more that the $155 I paid for the Asus board. 

     
     
    #8
    stratman70
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/02 19:50:14 (permalink)
    The Z390 only difference is it has built in wifi, which I hate. Both the 370 and 390 support 9th gen intel
    Interesting article about the 9th gen intel stuff
     
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/13401/intel-9th-gen-cpus-9900k-9700k-9600k
     
    I still believe that the wattage difference creates a heat difference. IOW, 65watt 8700 vs a 95w 8700K. You really need a better cooling system. The heatsink\fan that ships with the intel sf is a joke, especially for the K models.
     
    The 9th gen intel ff for the most part are 95watts. I mean I have a great case and killer cooler, so I really don't need to worry. I guess I just am Over cautious 

     
     
    #9
    fireberd
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/02 22:10:08 (permalink)
    If/when I build a new system I'll use liquid cooling.  My current build i7 6700K is using a Deep Cool "Captain 120EX" liquid cooler.  The CPU idles around 30 deg C.  I tried a Noctua CPU cooler with two fans Initially with the 6700K but the CPU idled around 40 deg C and didn't take much to jump up in the 50's, plus It was so big it touched the case side panel.  The Captain 120EX fan is as quiet as a Noctua.

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
    Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
    Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
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    #10
    stratman70
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/03 00:32:06 (permalink)
    There really is no "cooling" edge to liquid vs Air coolers. I have spent a lot of time on research and review. There are pros and cons to both.
    My first concern is always "noise" . which is mostly fans except liquid coolers have pumps and fans.
    From what I have found is it's "just a choice".
     
    Biggest reason I see to liquid is so much room is saved inside the PC and the radiator can be mounted away from the CPU. Also heavy air coolers can put stress on a cheap\inexpensive motherboard
    So those are good.
    Now water removes the heat faster than metal but also retains the heat longer than metal. so?   
    I prefer air and make sure it is mounted properly and the boards are strong. I do not move my PC around except to lay it down now and then for maintenance. It is so, so quiet and definitely will never leak water.
     
    Interesting, your post got me to look at all of this and I appreciate that. I did search for the quietest liquid cooler but I guess they aren't tested that way as much as air coolers....
    Sure do envy the "lack of clutter" in the case for sure.......
     

     
     
    #11
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/04 17:27:27 (permalink)
    With a higher clocked i9, you're pretty much forced to go with higher-end water-cooling.
    You're correct that water-cooling doesn't necessarily mean "quieter"... precisely because you've got both fan and pump noise.
     
    If you're doing something like rendering video, where you've got all 10+ cores running at 100% for several hours, there's no cooling solution that's going to keep that scenario whisper quiet.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #12
    fireberd
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/04 18:32:00 (permalink)
    My liquid cooler is not "water", its glycol - the same thing as automotive anti-freeze.
     
    The liquid cooler I have is as quiet as the Noctua with two large fans that it replaced.  I don't do a lot of tracks, but I have loaded a sample project with over 100 tracks and if it ramped up I didn't hear it (and I wear hearing aids, so I can "hear").
     

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
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    #13
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: New DAW PC Build 2018/11/05 13:19:57 (permalink)
    Technically, none of the "water-coolers" are using water.  
    It's just the common "street name".  
     
    Assuming we're talking "over-spec'd" cooling for both "liquid" and "air" (where heat is efficiently dissipated)... and that we're comparing with the same fans on both:
    At idle, a "liquid-cooler" will typically be louder than an air-cooler.
    The pump noise may be relatively quiet, but it does exist... in addition to the fan noise.
    Where the "liquid-cooler" gains ground is when temps get hotter... it's more efficient at dissipating heat, so the noise ramps up less (lower RPMs on the fans).
     
    If you're rendering video... where you've got 10+ cores running at 100% load (temps naturally go up ~25 degrees) for several hours, you can't buy a cooling system that'll keep that process whisper quiet.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #14
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