yummay
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New DAW by Microsoft?
https://ask.audio/articles/microsoft-working-on-daw-to-challenge-apples-garageband-logic-pro
Yummay, Amuses-gueules sonores Bite-sized sounds and harmonic entrées Dell Studio 1747 (I7), Tascam US20x20, Yamaha 01v96V2 / Behringer ADA 8000, Godin LGXT+ Roland GR-09, Behringer Motor 49. Windows 10 (64), Sonar Platinum, Komplete 10, Sound Forge 10, Vegas pro 9, Waves Gold.
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lawajava
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/20 00:13:44
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Somewhere else here on the forum there's a post with links to Microsoft job postings probably related to that. Looked like a "store it in the cloud" future product.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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bitflipper
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/20 16:21:56
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That speculation is based on a single job posting. Required experience is given as "digital audio workstations, virtual instruments, game audio soundscapes, or other examples of audio in software", and the job entails "building a software platform that enables new music entertainment scenarios". Which sounds pretty generic, and not DAW-specific.
Microsoft employs a lot of people - 120,000 last time I checked. That's more than there are people in the city I live in. Did you know that MS has a beautiful state-of-the-art recording studio in Redmond? There are people drawing a healthy paycheck with full benefits to work there. Of course, they're not recording the Rolling Stones in there. Mostly voice-overs, sfx and music for video games. But still, it's got to be a sweet gig.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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abacab
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/21 00:18:21
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2017/09/27 13:40:55
Could you just imagine if Microsoft acquired Cakewalk from Gibson, it could become the Garage Band and Logic of Windows!!!
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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bitflipper
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/21 03:19:56
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/09/21 03:36:12
It could happen, if Noel finds out about that job posting. Free all-you-can-drink sodas, Noel!
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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dubdisciple
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/22 00:33:52
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Starise
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 13:44:48
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It would probably be easier for Microsoft to simply buy Cakewalk and develop a free version of it to be included in Windows. Has worked well for Apple users who use Garageband. Some people won't move from Garageband X...ever. They don't feel they need the upgrade to Logic.
Sonar would make a great choice since it's a windows program closely integrated since the very beginning and on into cutting edge features.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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abacab
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 14:20:10
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Microsoft has plenty of cash, so why not?
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TerraSin
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 14:33:41
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I don't know that I would like MS buying Cakewalk. They likely wouldn't be nearly as generous with letting Cakewalk run on it's own, making it's own decisions like Gibson has. They would more likely swoop in with their own team and really bugger everything up or do things with Sonar that simply shouldn't be done... like discontinue the stand alone application and make it strictly a Windows Store app or try and merge it with a bunch of other pointless crap.
If you look at the track history with their acquired companies, it's not the best.
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MarioD
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 14:49:44
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abacab
Could you just imagine if Microsoft acquired Cakewalk from Gibson, it could become the Garage Band and Logic of Windows!!!
NO, I don't want MS anywhere near Sonar! It may cost us in the end. If you are old enough to remember Lotus 123 then you may know that IBM's take over of 123 ended 123. There were things that 123 could do that AFAIK Excel still can do, like make your own menus. That might happen if MS takes over Sonar. MS might even charge $100 or more a year for a DAW, much like it does with Office. I say let them take over Cubase, PreSonus or any other DAW but leave Sonar alone. YMMV
The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better. Sonar Platinum, Intel i7 –2600 CPU @ 3.2 GHz, 16 GB ram, 2x2TB internal drives and 1 1TB internal drive, Radeon HD 5570 video card, HP 25" monitor,
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abacab
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 15:37:46
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MarioD
abacab
Could you just imagine if Microsoft acquired Cakewalk from Gibson, it could become the Garage Band and Logic of Windows!!!
NO, I don't want MS anywhere near Sonar! It may cost us in the end.
If you are old enough to remember Lotus 123 then you may know that IBM's take over of 123 ended 123. There were things that 123 could do that AFAIK Excel still can do, like make your own menus. That might happen if MS takes over Sonar.
As a matter of fact I do remember! My company was a Lotus 123 & Wordperfect shop for years, until we were assimilated into the MS Office collective. That was a downgrade in my opinion. I have seen tech companies taken over, and once their intellectual capital has been harvested, they are put out to pasture. So takeovers and buyouts are not always a good thing. Of course, my preference would be for things to stay as they are! But in the long run some changes may be inevitable with the market forces and economy as they are today. I only made this comment because Microsoft has deep pockets, and Cakewalk's dev team already works closely with the MS Windows team.
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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mettelus
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 15:51:41
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MS has had a habit of putting competition under by offering free versions until they owned enough market share. Word was free until WordPerfect went belly up and was acquired by Corel. That mentality still exists, so it would be self-defeating to assume otherwise. Cakewalk could end up being collateral damage in such a situation, especially with a Home Studio competitor being free.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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bitflipper
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 17:44:51
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I was a WordPerfect user, too. Switching to MS Word did feel like a downgrade at the time. So many advanced features were missing. Of course it's evolved since then. But I sure am getting tired of the "where'd they move that option to?" snipe hunt after every new revision.
Q: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to replace a lightbulb?
A: None. They just change the standard to "dark".
But it might be interesting to see what happens after they've changed SONAR's default export format to XML.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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mudgel
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 18:31:19
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Sonar as a service. Doesn't that conjure up some nightmares.
Still stranger things have happened and if Gibson aren't careful they may not even get a say. But all paranoia aside what could be done to Sonar with the resources that Microsoft has at its disposal. Especially if still guided by the core Cakewalk team.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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ljb500
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 19:29:35
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I wonder if ms will include a decent sampler.
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BobF
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 19:35:28
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The new DAW will be called WinCake. Or CakeSoft. Or WinWalk. Or maybe something else.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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abacab
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 19:36:54
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DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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dmbaer
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/09/27 19:51:28
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bitflipper
I was a WordPerfect user, too. Switching to MS Word did feel like a downgrade at the time. So many advanced features were missing. Of course it's evolved since then. But I sure am getting tired of the "where'd they move that option to?" snipe hunt after every new revision.
I've been trying to study DSP lately - not a trivial undertaking on one's own, but I'm slowly making progress. Anyway, in the process I needed something to quickly verify an assumption about DFT (discreet Fourier transform). Turns out, Excel can do DFT - whoa ... heavy, man!
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denverdrummer
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/25 22:04:46
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Count me as one that would be all on board for MS buying Cakewalk. Gibson is bleeding red ink, their stock is downgraded just barely above junk rating and they have $520 million in debt and will need to restructure before mid 2018 or face filing bankruptcy.
Now I don't know about Cake's financials, they may have been flourishing during this time, but I don't think it's good when your parent company is about to go under.
Having the financial stability of being under a cash giant like MS would be good for Cakewalk. When Apple bought Emagic it was able to popularize the Logic brand and make it exclusive to Mac to the point where a lot of pro studios have switched over to it, because it's more producer friendly than Pro Tools and cheaper. Plus putting Garage Band, free on every Mac put it as one of the largest install bases for a DAW, and to go to Logic Pro it's only like $200 direct download because Apple can run it as a break even business because they make profits elsewhere on other products. Garage Band was like a gateway drug to buying a Mac and upgrading to Logic Pro.
There are way too many DAW's on the market, which is a niche market to begin with and the whole music retailer industry is in decline, just look at not only Gibson but Guitar center's decline. The install base for Sonar is already behind other DAWs and even new DAWs like Bitwig are catching up.
Many of you have brought up good points on why it shouldn't happen, and those are valid concerns, but I'm very concerned with Cakewalk's viability being run under Gibson.
Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Dell Inspiron 15, core i7, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mackie MR5 Mark 1 speakers
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TheMaartian
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/25 22:25:22
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Does ANYBODY know how many different versions of WordPervert v5.1 there were? I was forced to use it for a year or so before Motorola IT FINALLY listened to its Windows (engineers) user base and moved us to Word.
Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08 Studio One 4 Pro Notion 6 Melodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7 PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
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cclarry
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/25 22:33:43
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I believe it started at 5...went to 5.1, kind of like
Windows did with version 3, going to 3.1, then Windows for Workgroups 3.11 etc...
I used both 5 and 5.1 for DOS for years...along with Lotus 123 for DOS...
I remember when Windows 3 launched, and, for me, it was a Godsend.
I was able to copy data from WP to Lotus, and visa versa, which was a
HUGE time savings when compiling reports...it made my life much easier!
Then Word came along...with WYSIWYG...which didn't quite become WYSIWYG
for quite a few years after...and Excel...etc...which only made things even easier!
BTW...I have Beta Tested since Windows 3, and was a member of the MSDN for
quite a while
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abacab
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/25 22:35:02
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TheMaartian
Does ANYBODY know how many different versions of WordPervert v5.1 there were? I was forced to use it for a year or so before Motorola IT FINALLY listened to its Windows (engineers) user base and moved us to Word.
I use LibreOffice for my office productivity suite now. In the event that I need 100% MS Office file format compatibility, I can use the free Microsoft Office Online. https://products.office.com/en-us/office-online/documents-spreadsheets-presentations-office-online Google Docs is not half bad either. https://www.google.com/docs/about/ But MS Word did suck back in the day when MS Office first began assimilating corporate IT folks. WordPerfect was way ahead back in the day (from DOS on to early versions of Windows), and so was Lotus 1-2-3 vs. Excel. 
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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cclarry
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/25 22:35:47
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That's what I use now too....free is free...and that's good enough for me!
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abacab
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/25 22:51:45
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denverdrummer
Count me as one that would be all on board for MS buying Cakewalk. Gibson is bleeding red ink, their stock is downgraded just barely above junk rating and they have $520 million in debt and will need to restructure before mid 2018 or face filing bankruptcy.
Now I don't know about Cake's financials, they may have been flourishing during this time, but I don't think it's good when your parent company is about to go under.
Having the financial stability of being under a cash giant like MS would be good for Cakewalk. When Apple bought Emagic it was able to popularize the Logic brand and make it exclusive to Mac to the point where a lot of pro studios have switched over to it, because it's more producer friendly than Pro Tools and cheaper. Plus putting Garage Band, free on every Mac put it as one of the largest install bases for a DAW, and to go to Logic Pro it's only like $200 direct download because Apple can run it as a break even business because they make profits elsewhere on other products. Garage Band was like a gateway drug to buying a Mac and upgrading to Logic Pro.
There are way too many DAW's on the market, which is a niche market to begin with and the whole music retailer industry is in decline, just look at not only Gibson but Guitar center's decline. The install base for Sonar is already behind other DAWs and even new DAWs like Bitwig are catching up.
Many of you have brought up good points on why it shouldn't happen, and those are valid concerns, but I'm very concerned with Cakewalk's viability being run under Gibson.
I mostly agree with what you say here. Gibson is an icon, and so is Cakewalk to those who love it. It would be cool if MS could offer enough for Cakewalk to pay off Gibson's debt payments for 20 years or so, give Gibson some time to adjust... If MS could put Cakewalk front and center as the leading Windows DAW, they would have an answer to Apple's Logic Pro (Mac only). Then maybe someday, MS could use their resources to cross platform Sonar for Mac, and step into Apple's turf. But then again, when I look at Microsoft's track record of promoting certain technologies, then killing them off when the return on investment sours, I'm not so sure that is a good thing. For example, look at the Windows Phone project. Or Games for Windows. That last one is like having your favorite TV series cancelled by the network due to viewer ratings declining. Ugh!
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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AndyB01
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/26 20:27:38
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☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2017/10/26 20:30:21
WP5.1 DOS was a work of genius and a joy to use. The power of the macro language was outstanding and light years ahead of the competition. I doubt many have a need today for any more features in a word processor than WP5.1 delivered 25 years ago.
That said, WP for Windows was an utter dog's breakfast which allowed MS Word to steal a march and it became seamless with Windows as part of Office as everyone went PowerPoint crazy in the '90s
A Microsoft acquisition of Cakewalk would be a sad thing but the DAW market is both niche and crowded. Not one of my musician friends who use a DAW use Sonar. They're on Cubase or Logic/ Pro Tools
Worrying times...
Sonar Platinum, Win10 Pro 64-bit, 16Gb RAM, Six-core AMD, Twin SSD. Instruments: Roland A88 and Taylor 314CE all through a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4. More ambition than talent.
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denverdrummer
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/26 21:40:08
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abacab
I mostly agree with what you say here.
Gibson is an icon, and so is Cakewalk to those who love it.
It would be cool if MS could offer enough for Cakewalk to pay off Gibson's debt payments for 20 years or so, give Gibson some time to adjust...
If MS could put Cakewalk front and center as the leading Windows DAW, they would have an answer to Apple's Logic Pro (Mac only).
Then maybe someday, MS could use their resources to cross platform Sonar for Mac, and step into Apple's turf.
But then again, when I look at Microsoft's track record of promoting certain technologies, then killing them off when the return on investment sours, I'm not so sure that is a good thing. For example, look at the Windows Phone project. Or Games for Windows. That last one is like having your favorite TV series cancelled by the network due to viewer ratings declining. Ugh!
I used Windows Phone for years, so I hear you on that. You could write a novel on all the abandoned projects MS had over the years, Zune, the Kin, Microsoft Bob, and my personal favorite Song Smith! Certainly there'd be no guarantee, but it's been just over 4 years since Gibson acquired Cakewalk, and Cakewalk has lost market share during that time. Sure there's the loyal users like us who love the product, but in this market you are not going to thrive unless you really exploit that. Gibson owning both Tascam and Cakewalk really never seemed to materialize any new installs, but then again Tascam is struggling in sales as a company. The best decision that I've seen from Cakewalk as far as market penetration was availability on Steam market place. That was a brilliant move and they are the only major DAW to make themselves available that way. The worst has been making it available for OSX which seems like a losing proposition, and would at most only keep a few of their own customers who want to stay on Sonar but use a Mac. I just don't see them being competitive against Logic X, Cubase, PT, and even S1 on the Mac platform. I see Sonar falling into irrelevancy, at least as far as overall market perception, and I think that MS is really the only company that could bring it back to relevance. Would there be a risk? Yeah for certain, but no more in my mind than when Gibson bought them.
Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Dell Inspiron 15, core i7, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mackie MR5 Mark 1 speakers
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Cactus Music
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/26 22:16:47
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Certainly there'd be no guarantee, but it's been just over 4 years since Gibson acquired Cakewalk, and Cakewalk has lost market share during that time. Sure there's the loyal users like us who love the product, but in this market you are not going to thrive unless you really exploit that. Gibson owning both Tascam and Cakewalk really never seemed to materialize any new installs, but then again Tascam is struggling in sales as a company.
This is my take as well.
I was all excited about the potential of an integrated Tascam/Cakewalk system like Pro Tools has with Avid consoles. Tascam is certainly capable of building a system and with their past history of bringing more afordable products to home studios they would be perfect. But, nothing has happened, they are coasting along with nothing new to show other than you now get Sonar with a Tascam product instead of Cubase.
I've been a big Tascam fan over the years but like all things acquired by Gibson I guess they are under some sort of restrictive management which I guess will someday soon result in it going complexly under. The more I read about Gibson the less I think that they will survive.
When they took over Garrison guitars they would not honor the lifetime warranty and then they closed the factory after a very short time and a lot of local people were now out of work. A lot of Garrison owners were not to happy with Gibson. But they say the market for guitars is fading.
I read an article by the owner of Gruhn Guitars and he commented how the guitar market always followed the popular guitar hero of the time and there are just no more guitar heros on the radio. In other words, the popularity of electronic music has killed the market for traditional instruments like guitar, Bass and drums. Look at the age of all the stilll touring bands! They are older than me and I'm old....
He also mentioned companies like Gibson and Fender could not compete in this modern market and the quality was declining as price points fall. The guitar factories which are all robots now, are making too many guitars and most go for a huge discount just to keep the companies afloat. It's a quickly shrinking market. So my take is if they all stopped building tomorrow it would take a long time before we ran out of guitars to pass around.
It is to be noted that Taylor guitars are the exception and they continue to grow. But I guess they found a market with the high end market of baby boomers on good pentions who can afford a $5,000 guitar.
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denverdrummer
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/26 23:50:58
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I read that article as well, very good but sad commentary on the modern music scene. Clapton is in his 70's, Eddie Van Halen is an AARP memeber, etc. Yeah there's really nobody on the current scene under the age of 30 that is attracting kids to buy a guitar.
Agreed on Tascam, what could have been. In this market if you don't execute you are not going to survive. The folks at Presonus had a major setback when their headquarters was flooded last year in the heavy rains, and they came out with 5 or 6 new products this past year having a remarkable recovery. Meanwhile it seems like Tascam is watering the lawn while the house is burning down!
As I said this is all coming to a head next year, so keep your ear to the wall. I hope this all works out and am keeping a hope for a good outcome for the bakers, because they work their butts off, I just feel that Gibson has really squandered their opportunities with this company.
Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Dell Inspiron 15, core i7, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mackie MR5 Mark 1 speakers
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Chandler
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/27 03:29:49
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I hope Microsoft buys Cakewalk and turns it into the Windows version of Logic. There are a number of people getting pissed at Apple and are looking for alternatives. If Microsoft worked more on their audio drivers and had a DAW like Cakewalk available, I’m sure a lot of people would switch.
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jerrydf
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Re: New DAW by Microsoft?
2017/10/27 10:10:53
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Humph. Can you imagine:
"MSDAW had been updated, without your knowledge or permission. There are no rollbacks. If it doesn't work it's obviously a user fault"
i5 6500 3.2GHz; 16GB; Win10 on SSD1; recording and samples on SSD2; + 3 other HDDs; 2 monitors in landscape; back with CbB and also Cubase 10 Pro, Komplete 11, Steinberg UR22. Instruments: Various fretboards and amplifiers. Listen to ... Cosmic Two-Step (2017)
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