New Machine - Sonar 5/Sonar 8 - SAME PERFORMANCE???

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skullsession
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2010/12/07 13:24:23 (permalink)

New Machine - Sonar 5/Sonar 8 - SAME PERFORMANCE???

Can anyone explain to me WHY....
 
Sonar 5 on XP 32bit.
Sonar 8.5 on Win7 64bit.
 
Over the weekend, I installed them back to back on the same machine.  First, the Win7/SPE 8.5.  Then, formatted and installed the XP/SPE 5.
 
In both cases, I loaded up the same exact mix - with the same exact plugins.  Both installs performed rock solid.
 
Same exact CPU hit.
 
Doesn't seem right....especially since every update for as long as I can recall has listed "audio engine improvements" as one of the reasons we should be upgrading.
 
Apples to apples, it seems that the only thing I've been upgrading over the years has been on the hardware side.
 
Now...granted....I'm probably not the "average user".  I only use Sonar as a digital tape machine...and I mix with it.  I don't use ANY of the soft-synths....and I really don't care how flashy the user interface is.  In fact, Sonar 5 has been my choice for years because of the GUI.  It works for me...and the Sonar 6 and 8.5 versions I upgraded to simply sit in the closet.
 
I'm just sort of shocked that a 10 year old version on a 10 year old 32 bit OS runs as fast as a NEW version does on a NEW 64 bit OS.

HOOK:  Skullsessions.com  / Darwins God Album

"Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:New Machine - Sonar 5/Sonar 8 - SAME PERFORMANCE??? 2010/12/07 13:50:32 (permalink)
    FWIW, When comparing performance at ultra low latency settings (64-sample ASIO buffer size or less), I find Sonar 8.5 can sustain loads that previous versions can't.
     
    There's a lot that factors into the equation, but keep these things in mind:
    • Win7 is a little more bloated than WinXP (as is WinXP compared to Win95 - happens with each new OS)
    • Bridged 32Bit plugins will hit the CPU a little more than native 64Bit dlls
    What small gain you see by going X64 might be offset by these/other facets.
     
    Try setting up a stress-test with lots of tracks/processing at high sample-rates (88.2k or higher) running at your audio interface's smallest ASIO buffer size.  I'd be suprised if you didn't see at least a notable difference.
     
     
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #2
    skullsession
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    Re:New Machine - Sonar 5/Sonar 8 - SAME PERFORMANCE??? 2010/12/08 08:08:40 (permalink)
    I'm sure there are a lot of things to consider.  I'm sure many, many more than I could ever understand in bios settings and hardware choices....

    And of course I could set up a "stress test".  But what's a better stress test; some sort of "hypothetical" test with tracks that are unprocessed, or a real-world test - where you're using real tracks with the actual plugins you're going to be using in your normal work flow?  I would suggest the latter, as those results are really what matters to a user who just needs the system to work, as efficiently as possible, every time.

    Are you suggesting that maybe these particular plugins are what limits Sonar to a certain throughput, regardless of release version or OS?  And that if I were to simply run unprocessed tracks, Sonar 8.5 on Win7 would run more tracks than Sonar 5 on XP?  Again, if that indeed were the case, I'm not sure why it would matter to a guy who actually is going to use the system with plugins.

    Don't get me wrong...I'm not really complaining about Sonar/Cakewalk.  I'm a Cakewalk guy...and have been since about 1995.  And I'm not trying to argue...because, in the end it doesn't really matter since this new system is murdering my last one...and I was already a pretty happy camper.  I built my dual Xeon system about 5 years ago and it's still a monster in practice.  I'm sure I'd still be using it 5 years from now if I needed to.  But this new i970 with the SSD's is frikkin' insane!

    HOOK:  Skullsessions.com  / Darwins God Album

    "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
    #3
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:New Machine - Sonar 5/Sonar 8 - SAME PERFORMANCE??? 2010/12/08 08:27:25 (permalink)
    I thought the cpu meters were notoriously inaccurate. Yes? No?


    #4
    skullsession
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    Re:New Machine - Sonar 5/Sonar 8 - SAME PERFORMANCE??? 2010/12/08 10:11:30 (permalink)
    LOL...if that's the case, then absolutely, make sure you include them in the GUI.

    HOOK:  Skullsessions.com  / Darwins God Album

    "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
    #5
    ohhey
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    Re:New Machine - Sonar 5/Sonar 8 - SAME PERFORMANCE??? 2010/12/08 13:47:18 (permalink)
    skullsession


    Can anyone explain to me WHY....
     
    Sonar 5 on XP 32bit.
    Sonar 8.5 on Win7 64bit.
     
    Over the weekend, I installed them back to back on the same machine.  First, the Win7/SPE 8.5.  Then, formatted and installed the XP/SPE 5.
     
    In both cases, I loaded up the same exact mix - with the same exact plugins.  Both installs performed rock solid.
     
    Same exact CPU hit.
     
    Doesn't seem right....especially since every update for as long as I can recall has listed "audio engine improvements" as one of the reasons we should be upgrading.
     
    Apples to apples, it seems that the only thing I've been upgrading over the years has been on the hardware side.
     
    Now...granted....I'm probably not the "average user".  I only use Sonar as a digital tape machine...and I mix with it.  I don't use ANY of the soft-synths....and I really don't care how flashy the user interface is.  In fact, Sonar 5 has been my choice for years because of the GUI.  It works for me...and the Sonar 6 and 8.5 versions I upgraded to simply sit in the closet.
     
    I'm just sort of shocked that a 10 year old version on a 10 year old 32 bit OS runs as fast as a NEW version does on a NEW 64 bit OS.


    I wonder how Sonar 5 would do on the new machine using XP 32bit ? Just as a test, not suggesting that's what you should do.
    #6
    skullsession
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    Re:New Machine - Sonar 5/Sonar 8 - SAME PERFORMANCE??? 2010/12/08 14:30:31 (permalink)
    That's what I'm saying, Frank.

    I DO have Sonar 5.xx on the new machine with XP-32bit, and it performs exactly the same as 8.5 did on the new machine with Win7-64bit.

    I wish I had that $150 back for the dang OEM version of Win7.

    HOOK:  Skullsessions.com  / Darwins God Album

    "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
    #7
    jcschild
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    Re:New Machine - Sonar 5/Sonar 8 - SAME PERFORMANCE??? 2010/12/09 09:29:22 (permalink)
    what made you think there would be a performance difference? its on the same system...

    to really see any differences you would have to pretty much create a killer project (or use Dawbench)

    technically Win7 64 would yeild better performance as would Sonar 8.5 but you have to peg the system and the ram to see it.
    and do it @ 64 buffer.

    in a nut shell the only real gain (thre is a lot more but..) from XP to win7 is access to more than 2 gig ram.


    Scott
    ADK
    Home of the Kentucky Fried DAW!
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