Butch
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New Mic Disappoints (Another Update!)
Hello All, I recently sold a few mics that I didn't use much on ebay and used the money to buy some new ones. Based on specs, reviews, user comments, and artist endorsements, I selected a Heil PR30. I was looking to bring my snare and guitar cab mic to the next level. I had been using a SM57 for those tasks, so that was the benchmark. I made some recordings for the purpose of comparison and was sad to find I liked the SM57 better on both. I have a couple ideas on why...what do you think. 1. I've been using the SM57 for the last 13 years and so have become acustomed to its sound. Anything that is different doesn't sound right to me. 2. If a new guitar cab speaker needs to be played for a few hours before it is broken in and sounds as good as it can, does a microphone (which is like a speaker working in reverse) need a break in period? I was really hoping that the $250 Heil would kick the @ss of the $95 SM57, but maybe it doesn't.
post edited by Butch - 2012/04/18 09:42:15
Butch Let's make some art!
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tlw
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/08 23:01:13
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1. Quite possibly/probably. It's also one of the "classic" guitar sounds, and for good reason. 2. No, not really. A mic diaphragm is much smaller and lighter than a cone, and is constructed very differently. Some people do praise "aged" mic diaphragms for some jobs but that sort of aging (if it happens at all) takes much longer than a few hours (like years). Premeir guitar ran a review of the HR30 which may be relevant to what you're finding. They reckoned it was much clearer than an SM57, but lacks the presence peak and bass proximity boost of the Shure. The review's online at http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2007/Dec/Heil_PR30_Amp_Mic_and_Much_More.aspx Personally, I like the SM57 on close-miced guitar cabs. I've condensors that are far more neutral and refined, but the 57 is what I generally end up using - sometimes with a condensor about 12-18" away from the cab as well, recorded to a different track then blended in the mix. In the end it's what sounds right to you.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/09 08:15:43
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Another possibility is you are now hearing a "truer" sound and it doesn't sound right to you. Yet. The same thing happened to me when I moved from using the SM-58 for everything (it was the only mic I had) to the Rode NT-2A. Everything sounded so different..... and yeah, not in a good way. I realized it was just that the new mic was probably giving me a more accurate rendition of what the sound source actually sounded like as opposed to the 58 which most likely had a coloration it imparted. After working with it for a few weeks, and learning about the NT2A I began to get much better recordings than I did previously with the 58. The 58 can't touch the NT on acoustic or vocals, even though the 58 is the stage standard mic round the world for vocals. Stage and studio are 2 different environments. note: the same thing applies to flat response monitors vs stereo speakers. Many folks comment that they don't sound "as good" as their home stereo speakers...... because they are designed to be accurate.... not flavored.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2012/04/09 08:17:41
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Dave Modisette
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/09 11:19:19
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I think that most of us would use a 57 sound as a benchmark with electric guitars. To me, that's what electric guitar is supposed to sound like. However, I'm loving what the Cascade Fathead ribbon mic is doing for my little Fender Pro Jr. cabinet. I pulled the power amp out of the cabinet and had intentions of selling the cabinet or pitching it in the trash before I set it up on a bar stool and put the Fathead in front of it and turned the gain wide open on the Pro Jr.
Now, if I can get the noise level down on the Pro Jr., I'll be a happy camper.
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Jind
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/09 11:25:54
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Mod Bod
I think that most of us would use a 57 sound as a benchmark with electric guitars. To me, that's what electric guitar is supposed to sound like.
I think this is the case when it comes to 57. It's been used as the standard electric guitar mic on so many recordings it's simply become "the" sound one expects (well quite a few of us). I've bought other microphones for vocals and other instruments, but keep going back to old reliable (the sound I hear in my head when thinking about electric guitar), my 57, for micing up my amp.
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Butch
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/09 13:29:35
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Thanks all. I think I may need to spend some time with this mic to see what it can do for me. Maybe its different non-classic sound could become what makes my recordings stand out as unique? On another note, I just replaced my MD421 II with an EV RE320 and LOVE IT!. Punchier, more articulate bass drum and super on vocals.
Take care.
Butch Let's make some art!
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Rimshot
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/09 14:05:59
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I agree with Guitarhacker in that it just may be that you need to get used to it and find out what it is good for. The other day, I used an Behringer B1 large diaphram condenser on my Vox VT30 to see the difference from my Shure SM58. I actually liked it for a real clean type sound.
Rimshot
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thaomajir
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/10 10:22:46
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any folks comment that they don't sound "as good" as their home stereo speakers. 
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spacealf
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/10 10:51:00
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Maybe you all have been listening to a 57 for too long nowadays, and your ears can not adjust anymore to something new. Whoa, what a way to go!
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tagruvto
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/13 16:38:58
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Mod Bod
I think that most of us would use a 57 sound as a benchmark with electric guitars. To me, that's what electric guitar is supposed to sound like. However, I'm loving what the Cascade Fathead ribbon mic is doing for my little Fender Pro Jr. cabinet. I pulled the power amp out of the cabinet and had intentions of selling the cabinet or pitching it in the trash before I set it up on a bar stool and put the Fathead in front of it and turned the gain wide open on the Pro Jr.
Now, if I can get the noise level down on the Pro Jr., I'll be a happy camper.
+1
Mod Bod - I have played through a Blues Jr. mic'd with a Fathead AND a 57 - mixing the output of both mic's can also give you some fantastic sounds. To my ears: the recorded track using just the ribbon is the closest to how the amp actually sounds in the room EXCEPT - that it might be a little too warm - so adding some signal from the SM57 really lets you dial in just enough edge to give it just the right attack.
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batsbrew
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/13 17:48:48
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i prefer my Palmer PDI-09 to a sm57.
might want to look at those.....
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Dave Modisette
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/13 20:17:57
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batsbrew
i prefer my Palmer PDI-09 to a sm57.
might want to look at those.....
If guitar simulators are in play then this one is certainly worth consideration. http://www.customtonesinc.com/
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Butch
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/14 21:34:15
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OK, I know some of you are going to call BS on me, but this is what I did:
I took my new PR30 and put it up in front of the resonant bass drum head for about a week. I then did another comparison to my SM57 and the PR30 BLEW IT AWAY! I tried to figure out if I had done something wrong. I tried swapping the mics to the opposite speakers, I tried swapping the inputs I was using...I can't explain it any other way. The PR30 is more clear, articulate, present...it just is.
So what do you think?
Butch Let's make some art!
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Dave Modisette
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/15 07:56:41
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Butch
OK, I know some of you are going to call BS on me, but this is what I did:
I took my new PR30 and put it up in front of the resonant bass drum head for about a week. I then did another comparison to my SM57 and the PR30 BLEW IT AWAY! I tried to figure out if I had done something wrong. I tried swapping the mics to the opposite speakers, I tried swapping the inputs I was using...I can't explain it any other way. The PR30 is more clear, articulate, present...it just is.
So what do you think?
I think if you are looking for more clear, articulate and present then you have found a winner. My AT 4030 mic is more clear, articulate and present than my SM57 but I'm not going to put it on a snare drum. It depends on what the track is going to need further down the road, I supose. All the attributes that make the mic sound good soloed might eventually get in the way when it's in a mix. I think that, for us home studio guys, mic selection boils down to "what do I have that will sound the best for what I'm micing" and after that you get further and further in to "what do I have left to work with on the rest of the instruments." 
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DeeringAmps
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Re:New Mic Disappoints
2012/04/15 10:05:48
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Butch,
If I read this right, you are saying that after the PR30 has gotten some "exercise",
"I took my new PR30 and put it up in front of the resonant bass drum head for about a week", that now "The PR30 is more clear, articulate, present...it just is".
Right?
Tom
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Butch
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Re:New Mic Disappoints (Update: Amazing Discovery!)
2012/04/15 10:28:42
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Yes, that is my understanding of the situation.
Butch Let's make some art!
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Butch
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Re:New Mic Disappoints (Update: Amazing Discovery!)
2012/04/18 09:45:48
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Just got an Audix i5. I like it better than a SM57 right out of the box. It has a little more body, a little more high end definition, and no "honky" midrange. Between the i5 on the snare, the PR30 on the guitar cab, and the RE320 in the kick, I think I've just improved the quality of my recordings by at least 6.2%!
Take care Y'all!
Butch Let's make some art!
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batsbrew
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Re:New Mic Disappoints (Update: Amazing Discovery!)
2012/04/18 11:11:46
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If guitar simulators are in play then this one is certainly worth consideration. the palmer PDI-09 is not a guitar simulator. not even close. http://www.palmergear.com/pdi09.shtml you can hear it in play in my song posted in the song forum...
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IK Obi
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Re:New Mic Disappoints (Update: Amazing Discovery!)
2012/04/19 21:01:34
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@Butch I prefer i5s over the 57 as well! Though I do have 1 more 57 than i5's. BRB need to go buy more i5s!
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Genghis
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Re:New Mic Disappoints (Update: Amazing Discovery!)
2012/04/20 01:56:56
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The i5 might be the next mic I purchase. I've read a lot about it, and the way it's described I think it might be just what I'm looking for to replace my old SM57 that was lost or stolen a couple years back. I'll be using it and a e609 on my guitar cab if I do pick one up.
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IK Obi
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Re:New Mic Disappoints (Update: Amazing Discovery!)
2012/04/21 16:06:44
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Definitely! I like it way better than the 57s. I was just offered a deal on 3 57s for less than the price of 1 used from a friend that was moving. Hard deal to pass up! lol
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JazzSinger
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Re:New Mic Disappoints (Update: Amazing Discovery!)
2012/05/02 18:05:54
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The Heil PR30 is a radio mike with artificially scooped mids; although the 10dB peak at 4kHz seems an odd design decision.
Be that as it may, it seems the ideal mic for bass drum. Finding the right position is the key, and varies depending on the size of the drum. Pointing at the beater at a distance of 3 inches is a good balance, moving further back gives more bass.
The SM57 is indeed the standard on cabs and snare, but 15 years back the quality varied wildly from one to another. Even today, two will not sound quite the same, something the Shure forum readily admits to.
As dynamic microphones age, the diaphram material can stiffen and even get brittle. But no, they do not benefit from "burning in".
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