pentimentosound
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New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
I just saw this on FB and am wondering how usb 3 will impact latency. I don't see a price yet, but there are several pages of info on their site. http://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-192/media Is this big news? The usb3 part? Michael
i7 4790k 4Ghz 16gb+4HDD, Win10, ASUS G74s Laptop i7 2670QM 2.2ghz-16gb, Win10. CbB, Mixbus4, Studio One3 Artist, Z3ta2, RapturePro, GPO5, GS2, EP4, IK TR5, AT4, MP2, Melodyne Stud4, PSP(22), PS kits, BFD2, GA4, 18i20, PreSonus MP20A(BurrBrown), ISA One, Warm Audio WA76, ADK Thor, M160, RAB1, MA200, MA101fet, E100s, e835, EquatorD5, YSM-1, GoldDigger, CherryPicker, Kurz K2500, Aura Spectrum, ControlPad, PRRI, 17 ac & elec gtrs-mandos+bass, lap steels, banjo, fiddle, harmonicas+perc
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/15 11:01:22
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The Presonus USB-2 units (AudioBox VSL) offer total round-trip latency of 4.9ms at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k.
RME units... and new MOTU AVB units (connected via USB) also yield 4.9ms total round-trip latency at 44.1k.
At 44.1k, 4.9ms total round-trip latency seems to be the "brick wall".
The Studio 192 is nowhere close to saturating the bandwidth of USB2... so I don't think you'll see a major latency performance difference simply by increasing bandwidth.
Using a car as an example: If you car tops out at 120-MPH, it doesn't matter if you put that car on a two-lane road... or a 6-lane freeway (more bandwidth). The car will only go 120-MPH.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/15 12:01:43
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Some nice features in this new Presonus Studio-192
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pentimentosound
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/15 12:11:31
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Thank you, Jim. Good analogy. I certainly wouldn't complain at 4.9 msec! I have to find out if my Tascam us1641's new drivers will help me. I reset it to the lowest latency, giving me 12 msec at 44.1, but have to test out if I can record without issues, first.
My local shop carries PreSonus, so I hope to check this one out! I know you have recommended the 1818vsl, and now I have been checking out the MOTU Ultralite AVB, too. So thanks for all your input(s)! LOL
Michael
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/16 13:15:34
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$1200 list price (I'm guessing it'll street right about $1000).
That's not bad at all... considering the quality converters and many features.
If the drivers are rock-solid and deliver low round-trip latency, it'll be a formidable choice.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/16 13:41:05
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The MOTU AVB series is very nice too
It's good to see numerous (new) quality options for audio interfaces.
Quality converters, low round-trip latency, and reasonable cost...
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pentimentosound
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/16 14:23:25
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A friend on Scott Garrigus' DigiFreq forum, mentioned the PreSonus was going to street at $899, though I don't know where he saw that.
Yeah, the range of choices seems really good right now, with the Tascam us16X08, the Arturia Audio Fuse, the MOTU AVB and now this PreSonus Studio 192. I look forward to sorting out which one will work best for me.
Michael
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JohnEgan
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/19 13:20:54
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I was looking at the 192 also, I wanted to post a question for comments more so on the reputation/quality of their preamps and convertors, Jim mentions there pretty good? The car speed analogy helps understand possible significance of USB 3 over USB 2, to keep with that, would that also apply if you had many cars (channels) trying to drive on the same 2 lanes, or would having the six lanes available then be of any benefit? (i.e., is there a point at which USB 3 for any reason would be a significant advantage over USB 2?)
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Beagle
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/22 14:43:40
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JohnEgan
I was looking at the 192 also, I wanted to post a question for comments more so on the reputation/quality of their preamps and convertors, Jim mentions there pretty good? The car speed analogy helps understand possible significance of USB 3 over USB 2, to keep with that, would that also apply if you had many cars (channels) trying to drive on the same 2 lanes, or would having the six lanes available then be of any benefit? (i.e., is there a point at which USB 3 for any reason would be a significant advantage over USB 2?)
using your analogy built on Jim's analogy, USB2 can theoretically handle about 400 lanes with one car per lane. USB3 won't become significant until you exceed that many channels being recorded simultaneously. (that's assuming 44.1kHz sampling rate at 24bit recording, mono tracks being recorded and even a little "overhead" for the physical devices to be able to use). however, your "many cars behind each other" don't apply to the analogy - you're trying to add dimensions to Jim's analogy that don't apply. in this type of analogy, any car behind the lead car would be your next recordings. :-) Math: 44100 samples/sec * 24 bits = 1,058,400 bits/sec USB2's speed is 480Mbits/sec (480,000,000bits/sec) so 480Mbits/sec divided by 1.0584Mbits/sec = 453.515 tracks simultaneously recorded on USB2 theoretically. subtract about 53+ for "overhead" and you can still theoretically get 400 mono tracks recorded simultaneously. USB3 speeds/bandwidth are not significant yet for recording.
post edited by Beagle - 2015/04/22 15:10:44
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denverdrummer
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/22 20:23:45
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The bigger news for PreSonus, is they designed a device that will work with USB 3.0. A big problem for the AudioBox 1818VSL users, is they ran into a huge compatibility issue with Intel branded USB 3.0 chipsets. It took them over a year to come out with a driver to fix the issue. This was a huge problem for a lot of users as many laptops, and all in one PC's started putting all USB 3.0 ports on their machines. But essentially for over a calendar year I had a $500 brick in my studio for an Audio interface.
I do like PreSonus' innovation in bringing a lot of pro features in a budget friendly price range. Although Behringer with the X32 line and now the Xair mixers, are giving them a run for their money.
I like the specs on this products, although I am disappointed they went to the 2 inputs in front 4 in back design. I prefer having them all on the front as the 1818vsl did, it's just cleaner for cable management. But putting the DSP onboard (on the VSL it used your CPU to run the DSP), and their user interface is very simple and quick to use, although I hope they offer a full screen view for Windows. That was one of the annoyances I had with their Fat Channel mixer, but you can also use the free iPad/iPhone app.
Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Dell Inspiron 15, core i7, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mackie MR5 Mark 1 speakers
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rumleymusic
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/22 21:32:00
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The audio spec's look rather mediocre. I'm sure they'll trick a few people into thinking it is higher-end because of USB3.
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JohnEgan
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/24 08:28:11
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Thanks for USB info, from Daniel's response I assume preamps/convertors aren't quite up to the standards they purport them to be.
Cheers
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clintmartin
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/24 09:46:54
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I have a Presonus 44VSL. I get 7.3ms roundtrip latency at 24bit 48khz 128 samples. The usb3 driver increased the latency and provided nothing other than the fact it would work. I went back to the previous driver.
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pentimentosound
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/24 09:58:53
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Thanks for sharing that Clint. Your tracks sound really nice to me. So, PreSonus isn't off my list of possible options.
Michael
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Karyn
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/24 10:53:26
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Many people have pre-amp prefs based on "colour" added by the pre-amp. Valve pres being a good example.
Cheap pres can also colour the sound going through them, but usually in a bad way.
The Xmax pre-amps in all PreSonus gear are intended to be as transparent as possible and not colour the sound in either a good or bad way.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/24 11:17:53
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If Presonus delivers average noise-floor of -110dB or better... and has rock-solid drivers (ie: 4.9ms round-trip latency at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k), I think it'll do well.
If the average noise-floor is somewhere in the -103 to -105dB range, that's certainly less exciting.
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Karyn
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/24 11:24:20
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Tech Specs They're listing >110db dynamic range for a mic input and >114db for a line input.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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rumleymusic
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/04/24 13:06:52
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They're listing >110db dynamic range for a mic input and >114db for a line input. About average for similarly priced competitors. Only 112dB on the output. The converters are rated at 118dB I/O (which I am assuming uses the same 8-channel AKM codec so popular in many devices including RME's UFX) so that tells me they could have put a little more effort into squeezing a few more dB in performance with the analog components and PSU. I am being rather fussy here. Anything better than 110dB is certainly acceptable for professional use, especially in a studio environment.
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mousavi
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/10/10 17:38:45
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pentimentosound
I just saw this on FB and am wondering how usb 3 will impact latency. I don't see a price yet, but there are several pages of info on their site.
Is this big news? The usb3 part?
Michael
Recommended audio interfaces: - PreSonus Studio 192 26x32 USB 3.0 Audio Interface
$899 , November 2015
- ZOOM UAC-2 USB 3.0
$299 , June 2015
$699 ZOOM UAC-8 USB 3.0 (like PreSonus Studio 192)
1.8 msec overhead round trip latency
2.2 msec round trip @ 96 kHz / 32 samples
- ZOOM TAC-2R Thunderbolt (More than twice as fast as USB 3.0)
$320 , December 2014
1.8 msec overhead round trip latency
2.2 msec round trip @ 96 kHz / 32 samples
Latency time in the TAC-2R is just 4.17 msec round trip when operating at a 44.1kHz sampling rate with a 64 sample buffer size.
USB 3.0 has a much lower latency than USB 2.0 The USB 3.0 improves upon communication model and reduces transmission latency by minimizing polling, lowering CPU usage, and allowing devices to transmit data as soon as it is ready. USB 3.0: 1.3-1.8 msec overhead latency......750 iops USB 2.0: 4-6 msec overhead latency............200 iops Actually, additional 6ms latency (18ms round-trip latency at 512 samples 44khz) is too much for piano players and also for music producers which have a huge volume of virtual instruments that have dedicated audio effects. If you assign 256 samples into buffer, you have 6ms output latency at 44khz (256 / 44100 = 0.0058 sec => ~6ms) and therefore you have 12ms latency in output trough USB 2.0 and 7.3ms latency trough USB 3.0! I can't produce orchestral music or even playing Piano over than 13ms latency. In worst case scenario I need to set buffer to 512 samples due to a large project and this cause to have around 13ms round-trip latency and therefore I strongly recommend that use professional PCIe sound cards such as RME AIO instead of USB 2.0 audio interfaces or going with ZOOM UAC-2R which has ultra low-latency trough USB 3.0.
post edited by mousavi - 2015/10/11 19:16:33
Hesam Seyed Mousavi softwarearchitectblogs.wordpress.com
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TheMaartian
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/10/10 20:28:44
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Please take a look at the PreSonus downloads for their AudioBox VSL interfaces. Not one has been updated since April 2014. And that update wasn't for compatibility fixes for existing customers. My 44VSL is now connected "class compliant" to my Android tablet running the Audio Evolution Mobile DAW. PreSonus may be great innovators, but they do suck at supporting existing products. Problems with the AudioBox VSL series drivers? Peeps beatching all over the online forums? Solution? Release a new product! Hey, everybody. Want a Studio 192? Woo hoo! Have an AudioBox VSL? What? Can't hear you. Hey, want a 192?
OK, I quit on that.
The Tascam US-16x08 is an excellent USB2 i/f. Once they released their Win10 driver, I was able to go to 64 samples without glitches. The best I could do with the Win7 driver was 256 samples; much higher latency. The new US-20x20 required USB3 to handle the additional throughput (assuming ALL i/o active at the same time).
The US-16x08 streets at $299. A bargain for that much i/o. Excellent build quality. Excellent components. Love mine.
Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08 Studio One 4 Pro Notion 6 Melodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7 PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/10/12 19:47:02
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mousavi
I strongly recommend that use professional PCIe sound cards such as RME AIO instead of USB 2.0 audio interfaces or going with ZOOM UAC-2R which has ultra low-latency trough USB 3.0.
FWIW, There's a **HUGE** difference in quality between various USB-2 audio interfaces. The best units (RME and MOTU) achieve very low round-trip latency... and you can sustain heavy loads glitch-free (assuming your DAW can sustain the load). ie: The MOTU Ultralite AVB yield 4.9ms total round-trip latency at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k The RME Fireface UFX (and derivatives) yield 4.9ms total round-trip latency at a 48-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k USB3 units are just starting to hit the street.
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clintmartin
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/10/12 20:47:29
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My 44VSL is working just fine. 7.3ms total roundtrip at 128 sample 48khz.
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pentimentosound
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/10/13 09:15:28
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Is usb3c likely to show up this year? I read that it was quite a bit faster than usb 2 and seem to recall it would be faster than usb3.
I think 4.9 would be fine, as long as I could have reverb in the headphones while tracking vocals.
I also wonder if the Apollo Twin Duo usb will match that RTL.
Michael
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/10/13 10:34:51
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pentimentosound
Is usb3c likely to show up this year? I read that it was quite a bit faster than usb 2 and seem to recall it would be faster than usb3.
I think 4.9 would be fine, as long as I could have reverb in the headphones while tracking vocals.
I also wonder if the Apollo Twin Duo usb will match that RTL.
To get round-trip latency significantly lower than 4.9ms, you have go down to a 32-sample ASIO buffer size. Most USB2 units don't offer a 32-sample ASIO buffer size. Also note that the unit must use a small (often hidden) safety-buffer. If that buffer is larger, round-trip latency will be significantly higher.
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pentimentosound
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/10/13 10:55:22
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Thanks Jim, I've read your posts about the hidden buffer. I guess I could be quite happy with 4.9 for quite a while.
LOL
Michael
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/10/13 11:18:21
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Yeah, 4.9ms is definitely on the good (low) side. Input monitoring thru software is comfortable. Anything lower is gravy... 
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2015/10/13 11:32:18
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pentimentosound
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2015/10/13 16:02:07
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Gravy sounds good! Anything warm...LOL It's went from mid 70's to chilly and brusk overnight.
Do you think the Apollo Twin Duo usb will come close to that 4.9 ms RTL?
Michael
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californiamusic
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2016/03/17 11:40:46
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Hi all. Has anyone picked up a Presonus 192? I've had one for a month or so now.. wanted to compare notes. ; )
Intel i7-4770 - 3.9GHZ DDR3 - 32GB RAM Sonar PlatinumPresonus Studio 192 Motu 2408 MK3 Waves v9 Spectrasonics Omnisphere, Stylus RMX, Trilion Novation V-Station, Gladiator, ReFX Nexus, Lounge Lizard, Alchemy www.soundcloud.com/glenntolliver
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Karyn
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2016/03/17 12:14:16
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Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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californiamusic
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Re: New PreSonus Studio 192 interface for usb 3
2016/03/17 12:46:33
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Karyn.. what are your thoughts on the 192 so far.. good and bad? ; )
Intel i7-4770 - 3.9GHZ DDR3 - 32GB RAM Sonar PlatinumPresonus Studio 192 Motu 2408 MK3 Waves v9 Spectrasonics Omnisphere, Stylus RMX, Trilion Novation V-Station, Gladiator, ReFX Nexus, Lounge Lizard, Alchemy www.soundcloud.com/glenntolliver
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