New Song

Hi Ron.
I don't think that there is any issue with using loops this way. I have never used them (program everything), I tend to have really specific ideas about the drum part, and programming them works ok. These sound great. I think that you also get a lot more natural sounds using loops as opposed to synths. The horn loops are also a lot easier that arranging the parts I would imagine.

Sounds good, great bass and guitar work. Actually I listened to all of your sruff and it all sounds great.

Nice tone.
I've got a bit of a problem with loop and construction kit CDs. There are "artists" out there making music virtually 100 percent with these things and effectively taking money out of the pockets of true artists who create music from the ground up. It's almost as bad as the big name DJs who sign a major record deal and have some talented producer make an album for them while they sit in the corner saying "and what does this do?"
A talentless moron can make apparently good music with a loop/construction kit.

Ron, really excellent peice you have here. Sonicly it's dead on to me. The drums sound just sick and complement everything else really well. Loving some of that funky guitar also. The loop thing is a pretty touchy subject for some musicians. I think there is a big difference between getting a bunch of loops and pasting them all together and saying "Hey look what I wrote" and using them to enhance or compliment things that you have already created. I think as long as you bring something of yourself into it, it can be a great tool. I dont use em personally but I am sure there is that line where you either feel good about creating something or feel guilty because you really didn't create something. Someone else did and you just put it together. Not meaning "You" literally, just anyone dealing with this kind of stuff. I think people would sense the difference between the two. Even non musicians. Just my 2c.

Very thoughtful comments. Thanks for the kind words Ed.
I agree that grabbing a sax solo and putting it into the song is not very creative. Which is basicaly what I did in this expeimental piece. But what about drum tracks? To me, editing drum loops is kind of like asking a drummer to play a certain beat in a song.
Thoughts?
Thanks for playing.
Ron

My Music

Thanks for your advice Glenn. I will explore the midi route. I am still new to this music in the computor thing,
Thanks to all who took the time to talk about this. I learne a lot.
Ron

I use drum loops. I don't have a place or the means to record drums. So it's a necessity.

I personally don't have a problem with loops if you have used them to support what you have created. Drums are good example of something that fits that critiera. (This is MY criteria, mind you.)

But I have also have an issue if the actual groove or chord progression was from a canned product. Anyone (with varying degrees of sucess), can jam on a karaoke tract, but that is NOT writing music. It could however be a valid demo of playing abilty, but it's not writing music.

On the other hand, there certain can be an artistic conponent to loop construction, certainly some can produce far better results than others, hence a talent for it. And I even suppose that if the individual components are small enough, you could make an arguement that you "wrote it".

It's a fine line, as long as you like it and your not trying to mis-lead anyone then what's the problem. I really doubt you are putting anyone "out of work".

Some might say that "vibraphones" played by a synth are cheating, but using that logic then a Hammond B3 sound on anything but a B3 would be cheating. It's a matter of degrees.

Loops are a tool, use them where you must, and not where you don't have to. You should be fine.

Daryl

I think it was a fine experiment and you fully disclosed the loop usage. So, I don't think Opaque was pointing a finger at you. But when you use loops you must agree that some % of your song was written by someone else.

To me, the meat of songwritting is chord progression, melody, and lyrics (if any). So using a drum loop doesn't take much credit away from the songwritter. I don't see it much different than going into a studio and telling the drummer 'give me an 1/8th note feel on the high-hat and a standard backbeat with the snare and figure out the kick yourself'. That is vastly different than telling a studio keyboardist to 'give me a real cool chord progression and a beautiful melody', in this case your basically asking the keyboardist to write the song. That is how far you can take it with loops too.

Imo, the ideal is to create what you hear in your head first. If you try to do that you really can't use loops. Mozart didn't use loops, he didn't even have to use an instrument - straight from his mind to writting down the notation.

Good stuff guys.
Thanks
Ron

Ron, this is a really good happy tune. one I like to like! you could use some work on the mix, bringing some of the instruments more to the front, sending others across the pan field for space. adding a little EQ to some of the tracks and maybe a little more reverb on some things. kind of a lot of different little things that would help this mix out.

as far as loops go, I think that loops are great for their intended purpose. I don't see the point of creating an entire song out of loops, tho. I think that's just throwing togehter someone else's work. yes, it would take some talent to do that as Tony said, but without SOME input to the song's creativity thru a creation of SOMETHING, then to me, it's just a "jigsaw puzzle."

if you're only adept at one instrument, then loops can really help you create a great song from your input with that one instrument, if you're using only loops to create a song...well, you call it what you want and I'll call it what I want and I won't really call that creating music.

but...also - who am I???? take my opinion for what it's worth!!!

I thought the who point of using any software at all was to be able to take advantage of using it to enhance and produce what ever it is you are trying to create. After all it is available for a price and the loops do become your band members. If your band members (loops) were programmed properly to play the way that you want the song to be produced an to get your final production the way you wanted it to be, then the band members (loops) did as you asked based on the production that was in your head.

Whether you use loops, software compressors, reverb etc, etc, etc, it is still software, available for creating music, sound effects or what have you, and no one has a God given right to say you are a moron for being creative, however the creation or the production is created. If that were the case, then we are all morons and creating music is for morons. So let us all be morons and create our songs as moron s do and use the moron software or moron musicians, the moron tools and equipment, so we can all be morons together. Does that about sum up what you've been told in here?

Personally, I think you did and excellent job at your production of getting out the jam you were trying to present to your fellow members. You used what was available and at hand and at a purchased price (you paid your band members (loops)when you purchased them. You had them (loops) play their part very well, based on your personal production of you song that was in your head. Nicly done and don't let anyone tell you different. Not everyone has a live band behind them, but then the loops were live to begin with and using them properly is an art in its self, which not everyone can master without some kind of time and lots of hard work and effort. Loops sure do keep production cost at a minimum and your time is what is required getting everything in order, so the final work has the sound and feel that you are personally looking for, so keep at it with your purchased band (loops) and have lots of fun while you are doing it. And always give praise to the Lord for keeping you encouraged. Amen!!