RSMCGUITAR
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1318
- Joined: 2014/12/27 02:33:15
- Location: Toronto
- Status: offline
New Strings?
Would like some opinions about recording guitars and bass with new strings v. slightly used v. old.
|
gswitz
Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5694
- Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
- Location: Richmond Virginia USA
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/05 18:04:05
(permalink)
I like fresh strings properly tuned. If they are stretching during play, that is no good only because they are out of tune.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
|
timidi
Max Output Level: -21 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5449
- Joined: 2006/04/11 12:55:15
- Location: SE Florida
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/05 20:10:57
(permalink)
I think 'New' is a little too much. For perfection, I like 3 day old. That said, My guit strings are a few years old. My bass strings are like 10 years old. If there is a problem, I melodyne it. But yea, newish strings are better than oldish strings.
|
wst3
Max Output Level: -55.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1979
- Joined: 2003/11/04 10:28:11
- Location: Pottstown, PA 19464
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/05 20:59:01
(permalink)
I always record with day old strings - or at least I start that way!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
|
rcklln
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 421
- Joined: 2004/07/02 13:59:32
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/05 23:21:10
(permalink)
"I always record with day old strings - or at least I start that way!" haha +1
|
codamedia
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1185
- Joined: 2005/01/24 09:58:10
- Location: Winnipeg Canada
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/05 23:22:42
(permalink)
Depends on the style for me.... Acoustics and clean electrics... I like them "broken in". Not much, just enough to take the sizzle off. "Day olds" would be a decent reference. Country guitar... chicken pickin'? I put on a fresh set and go! I go through a lot of strings when I record this style. When everyone else is taking a break, I'm changing strings. Overdriven guitars.... older strings work better for me. I don't care how old they are as long as the tuning is stable. Bass: Like overdriven guitars, as long as the tuning is still stable I'm good to go. New bass strings remind me too much of 80's production. Just my 2 cents...
post edited by codamedia - 2016/07/05 23:44:35
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! Desktop: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit , ASUS MB w/Intel Chipset, INTEL Q9300 Quad Core, 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, ATI 5450 Video Laptop: Windows 7 Pro, i5, 8 Gig Ram Hardware: Presonus FP10 (Firepod), FaderPort, M-Audio Axiom 49, Mackie 1202 VLZ, POD X3 Live, Variax 600, etc... etc...
|
Kamikaze
Max Output Level: -45 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3013
- Joined: 2015/01/15 21:38:59
- Location: Da Nang, Vietnam
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/05 23:42:26
(permalink)
I prefer bass strings broken in. I've flats and tapes on order, Many flat players keep the strings for ages, going for an old school sound. Jamerson never changed his strings, Carol Kaye just brought a new Bass every few years, and they came with flats back then.
|
LLyons
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 574
- Joined: 2004/08/25 12:48:39
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/06 00:09:04
(permalink)
I guess I'm the odd duck (I was born in Oregon) - when recording or performing, strings are on guitars for two days max. I restring half the instruments every other day. Bass, when they stop ringing and get a lightly dull sound (I prefer round wounds). I like when string rings longer. When I am not performing or recording, l leave them on for a few weeks at least. Longer on the instruments I use least. When I am done for the day with a guitar, I towel down the strings and neck and give the instrument a quick setup check. Too funny. I also stock up on strings during sales or promotions - to help save a bit.
L Lyons DOS and Windows Pro Audio 2-9 from 12 Tone, Sonar 2, 2XL, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 8.5, Producer, Producer Expanded, X1 Producer, X2 Producer, X3 Producer and now Sonar Platinum 64 bit - 2nd year Home Built Machine 32G Ram - Corsair Vengeance DDR4 Win 10 Pro Intel i7-6700K Gigabyte Z170-UD5 Thunderbolt3 - AVB ready Planar Hellium 27 touchscreen Limited connection to internet DAW use ONLY WAVES 9.2 64 Bit MOTU 1248 - Connect Thunderbolt MOTU AVB Switch Presonus RM32ai - Connect firewire 800 CS18ai - Connect AVB
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/06 00:42:27
(permalink)
A few other points to consider with this: Acids and oils from fingers - These will degrade strings in short order. My fingers are dry to begin with, and I often wash my hands anyway prior to playing. Washing can alleviate some things (or wiping while playing), but some folks have highly acidic sweat. In a gig situation, a cloth dusted or dampened with baking soda/water would keep fingers closer to 7pH even if not dry. Environmental conditions (humidity, air quality, etc.) - My guitars are rarely outside of my den, so they are not exposed to humidity shifts or most air pollutants. If in gig situations, strings would be exposed to more air issues. Not a lot to do about this one other than to wipe down strings or coat them with a protectant. Pickups/guitar type (mentioned above) - The guitar I plek'd a year and a half ago still has the same strings that were on it when I got it back. I check SPAN with it every so often and it still throws all the high end, discrete harmonics it ever did (way up over 10K because the pups are rather hot). Granted, the "overly bright" sound went away in short order, but with the pups I use I do not want that anyway (I need the tone pot around 4 as it is to knock the harmonics down). Quick side note with tuning - When the new nut was plek'd, I realized the approach he used was very similar to how Brian May said he had made his. The slots are actually about 1 mil wider than the string gage, so the only friction at the nut is over the saddle area. As a result, this guitar rarely requires tuning (even with an unused tremolo I have never blocked, but does have heavy springs on). For me, this has been a massive reason not to change strings, since it can simply be picked up and played instantly 99% of the time. The "Damn, that is rather nice" has outweighed any necessity for new strings.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/06 05:52:30
(permalink)
I'm one of the people with acid sweat. I can oxidise the top three plain strings on a nickel plated set black in about two weeks playing an hour a day at home or in one gig. Less than one gig if it's sweaty. Scrupulously cleaning strings with string wipes or string cleaner (remembering to clean under the string as well as where I can see it) and wiping the fingerboard down after playing maybe doubles the life I get out of a string. When I was gigging quite a lot I'd expect to go through a set of strings a gig. On the positive side I haven't broken a string on one of my own guitars in over 30 years.
I don't seem to do anything like as much damage to round-wound bass strings but then again I don't play bass as much as guitar.
As for fresh strings being over-bright, on Teles I use Fender 150s. The pure nickel wrap means they put out less highs in the first place so there's less sizzle and a warmer, smoother tone even with brand new strings. My SG gets Gibson Brite Wires, which compensate some for the decreased treble you get with the 300KOhm volume pots Gibson have used on lots of guitars for the last few decades. The ES135 gets Fender 250s in a heavy gauge for slide playing and my bad impersonation of John Lee Hooker.
Thinking about it, what I aim for, besides not playing on rough corroded strings that won't stay in tune, is consistency. If the strings are always pretty fresh it means they're consistent and tonally predictable. I deal with any new string tuning instability by repeatedly pulling the string away from the fingerboard up and down it's length until I've got most of the stretch out of it and it's stable.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
Voda La Void
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 723
- Joined: 2011/02/12 09:15:07
- Location: Broken Arrow, OK
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/06 08:48:06
(permalink)
I like new but broken in strings for acoustic recording. They're usually about where I want them after 30 minutes of playing, give or take. And that will work for a few days, for me. Electric dirty guitar, prefer them to be a lot more broken in. Brand new strings sound cool, but they almost have this "chorus" effect to them, since they sing and respond so much brighter, but that's so limited that you'd have to play your song perfectly to maintain that sound all the way through the song, else you're re-stringing again. I don't play that perfectly, and it will be hours if not days before I'm done. But this almost never happens because I don't have the determination to plan and have strings on hand. Typically, all songs are recorded with old, broken in strings. sigh...
Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
|
RSMCGUITAR
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1318
- Joined: 2014/12/27 02:33:15
- Location: Toronto
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/06 13:21:45
(permalink)
Thanks for all the input!
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/07 11:18:20
(permalink)
New strings will obviously have a brighter sound. The older they get, the more dull the sound becomes. If you're recording clean stuff, like jazz or clean twangy country, you would want to use new strings for the brightness that they impart. Distorted stuff, I don;t think it really matters as much. When I played live.... lots of gigging, I would change the strings every 2 weeks. Ernie Ball Super Slinky 009 simply because I didn't want a string breakage in the middle of the show. Also, regarding changing strings.... I read in Guitar Player Magazine many years ago that the Nashville session acoustic players used really heavy gauge strings and on a big country star recording session, they would change the strings after 15 to 20 minutes of playing time. They wanted that super bright overtone that the brand new strings gave them and swore that the strings lost those highlights after a few minutes of playing. All I know is that those sessions have some amazing sounding acoustic guitar tone. Currently, I change strings only when one of them breaks. So they are all well past a year old.... I will change the strings on my Taylor Acoustic when I have need to record something with it. Besides.... man, who doesn't love the sound of a guitar with brand new barely broken in strings on it?
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/07 19:51:02
(permalink)
I've known jazz electric guitarists of the Joe Pass school who like really worn-in, dull flatwounds. They can help get that very bell-like mostly mids kind of tone, or so they've told me.
For Django style acoustic playing the strings to use are the ones he and his contemporaries used. Savarez Argentines, which are light strings with an unusual wrap and plating. They can be hard to get hold of, but nothing else sounds quite like them, certainly not the nickel-wound strings sold by some manufacturers as "Gypsy Jazz" sets. The closest alternative I've found is a bright electric string of the same guage.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/10 09:07:08
(permalink)
tlw I've known jazz electric guitarists of the Joe Pass school who like really worn-in, dull flatwounds. They can help get that very bell-like mostly mids kind of tone, or so they've told me.
Yes you are correct. I've known several folks who preferred the mellow sound of the worn out nearly dead strings. Essentially what it comes down to is personal likes. What sounds best to you for the situation. There's reason to use new bright strings and reason to use old worn out sounding strings. My biggest concern with old strings is that they are grooved, from the frets, and weakened from the acids in sweat, and thus more likely to break in the middle of something important. I've also noticed that the intonation of the instrument goes off a bit as the strings wear out and get grooves in their undersides. The mass of the string changes as a result.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
robbyk
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 705
- Joined: 2009/11/30 17:09:49
- Location: Madison, WI
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/10 11:59:21
(permalink)
When recording myself or my friends on acoustic guitar (I'm a finger picker), I really dislike brand new strings, nothing but squeak, squeak, ad nauseum, pretty much guaranteeing a long session with Izotope Rx. I know many people will say technique should overcome the squeak, use different fingering, etc. But I work long and hard days finding the perfect voicing for solo song passages to perfectly complement the vocals, so I keep my fingering and trade off with well played strings a week or so old. If I'm just performing rhythm to be panned in with the cymbals and a band or such, maybe a brighter sound played with a pick is what I'll use but... I only listen to classical music these days and for most of the past decade, I was surprised to hear a guitar virtuoso on PBS radio the other day as nothing but squeak, squeak...even at 50 mph on a horrible bumpy road (classic Madison roadway). I thought those cats only used nylon strings but this went on for most of the 5 minute performance to resounding applause at the end.
"I'm just workin' on a good life, the way it is." Best, Robby K PC Specs: Dell XPS Tower, Intel Core i5 7400 CPU 3 GHz @, 8 GB RAMHardware: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Line 6 TonePort UX1, ART Tube MP, JBL LSR2325P 5" Bi-Amped MonitorsSoftware: Windows 10 Home, Sonar 8.5.3 Producer, Sonar Producer X1, Sonar Producer X2 expanded, Sonar Producer X3, Ableton Live 8.3.4, Ozone, Alloy, Toontrack, Podfarm, IK Multimedia, Garritan, Melodyne, Antares, Bias, Rob Papen, OhmForce, Don't Crack... Music Studio
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/10 17:43:39
(permalink)
Guitarhacker My biggest concern with old strings is that they are grooved, from the frets, and weakened from the acids in sweat, and thus more likely to break in the middle of something important. I've also noticed that the intonation of the instrument goes off a bit as the strings wear out and get grooves in their undersides. The mass of the string changes as a result.
I agree. Though by the time a string has noticable grooves in it, it's usually gone well past "dull" and is fit only for recycling. Strings that worn out won't hold tuning properly either, because they're no longer a uniform diameter and have been stretched for so long the steel core starts to go a bit plastic with fatigue and won't hold a constant tension. At least, that's what seems to happen. The intonation problem isn't just down to lost string mass either, if you measure the pitch of a string in that condition at any given fret it's likely to give a different pitch every time it's played. The string seems to vibrate differently, kind of in sections rather than as a single length. Badly corroded and worn strings also make excellent files, which is bad news for frets and fingerboard.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/10 18:05:09
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby robbyk 2016/07/11 11:35:10
robbyk I only listen to classical music these days and for most of the past decade, I was surprised to hear a guitar virtuoso on PBS radio the other day as nothing but squeak, squeak...even at 50 mph on a horrible bumpy road (classic Madison roadway). I thought those cats only used nylon strings but this went on for most of the 5 minute performance to resounding applause at the end.
The wrap on nylon/synthetic strings can squeak just as much as any other coil-wrapped string. A high action can be a contributing factor, and many classical guitars have a fairly high action which is exacerbated by the flat or almost flat fingerboard. There's obviously a connection with technique involved somewhere as well. Then microphones and piezo saddles sometimes seem to really emphasise string and finger noise as well. If the broadcaster adds some compression into the mix (which the audience in the venue probably wouldn't get the 'benefit' of) that obviously makes the problem even worse. And some people just seem to be squeaky by nature.
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
robbyk
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
- Total Posts : 705
- Joined: 2009/11/30 17:09:49
- Location: Madison, WI
- Status: offline
Re: New Strings?
2016/07/11 11:16:44
(permalink)
tlw, those are all excellent points!
"I'm just workin' on a good life, the way it is." Best, Robby K PC Specs: Dell XPS Tower, Intel Core i5 7400 CPU 3 GHz @, 8 GB RAMHardware: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Line 6 TonePort UX1, ART Tube MP, JBL LSR2325P 5" Bi-Amped MonitorsSoftware: Windows 10 Home, Sonar 8.5.3 Producer, Sonar Producer X1, Sonar Producer X2 expanded, Sonar Producer X3, Ableton Live 8.3.4, Ozone, Alloy, Toontrack, Podfarm, IK Multimedia, Garritan, Melodyne, Antares, Bias, Rob Papen, OhmForce, Don't Crack... Music Studio
|