New Toy!!! New Toy!!! My Focusrite VRM Box

I wanted to gush a little about a new device I just picked up.  Some months ago I became aware of the Focusrite Pro-24 DSP.  It's a firewire interface that includes two mike preamps, two headphone amps, and some other goodies.  But it's unique feature is (well, was) an ability to simulate various listening environments (rooms and speakers) in the headphone output.  Only problem was it had way more features than I needed (don't do recording and I was otherwise perfectly happy with my existing sound card), those unneeded features weren't cheap, and my current machine has no firewire capability anyway.
 
I even emailed Focusrite last summer telling them they were on to a really good idea, but if they could scale back it in features and cost, they could probably tap into the market of hobbyist masses (like me) who did nothing more than MIDI/soft-synth music.  If there was any demographic that could take advantage of virtual room simulation at an entry-level price, it's folks like me.  I also mentioned how fire-wire problems are a frequent topic of discussion here and USB was a much better choice for the entry-level niche.  They sent a nice reply saying they couldn't say anything at the moment, but to stay tuned.
 
Fast forward to NAMM a couple of months ago and Focusrite introduced the VRM Box, which more or less did everything I was looking for for a hundred bucks.  Ordered one almost immediately (I needed a headphone amp in any case, and the VRM Box sounds very clean in that department and has ample power for my needs).
 
Now, professionals probably wouldn't want to go anywhere close to this for studio mixing.  Indeed, the virtual room would probably be a major impediment to mixing in reverb in the optimal amount even for amateur use.  But nevertheless, VRM is really, really cool.  I won't go into all the different rooms and speaker simulations available, but you can read about them here:
 
http://www.focusrite.com/products/vrm/vrm_box/
 
They only left out a couple of combinations that a lot of folks would probably like to have avaiable: "car with crappy speakers" and "car with good sound system" (but they do offer flat panel TV in bedroom and cheapo computer speakers in bedroom to slum around the low end of things).
 
Costs were kept down by using the USB connection to send stereo signal, which is picked up from the sound card S/PDIF output, back to the CPU for the virtual room modeling.  The enhanced signal is then sent back to the VRM Box for D/A conversion, amplification and output to the headphones.  The headphone level setting is independent of the sound card output setting, so changing the volume for headphones doesn't affect whatever level your monitors are set for in the sound card.
 
Very nice engineering effort IMO to offer highest quality for affordable price.

dmbaer


I wanted to gush a little about a new device I just picked up.  Some months ago I became aware of the Focusrite Pro-24 DSP.  It's a firewire interface that includes two mike preamps, two headphone amps, and some other goodies.  But it's unique feature is (well, was) an ability to simulate various listening environments (rooms and speakers) in the headphone output.  Only problem was it had way more features than I needed (don't do recording and I was otherwise perfectly happy with my existing sound card), those unneeded features weren't cheap, and my current machine has no firewire capability anyway.
 
I even emailed Focusrite last summer telling them they were on to a really good idea, but if they could scale back it in features and cost, they could probably tap into the market of hobbyist masses (like me) who did nothing more than MIDI/soft-synth music.  If there was any demographic that could take advantage of virtual room simulation at an entry-level price, it's folks like me.  I also mentioned how fire-wire problems are a frequent topic of discussion here and USB was a much better choice for the entry-level niche.  They sent a nice reply saying they couldn't say anything at the moment, but to stay tuned.
 
Fast forward to NAMM a couple of months ago and Focusrite introduced the VRM Box, which more or less did everything I was looking for for a hundred bucks.  Ordered one almost immediately (I needed a headphone amp in any case, and the VRM Box sounds very clean in that department and has ample power for my needs).
 
Now, professionals probably wouldn't want to go anywhere close to this for studio mixing.  Indeed, the virtual room would probably be a major impediment to mixing in reverb in the optimal amount even for amateur use.  But nevertheless, VRM is really, really cool.  I won't go into all the different rooms and speaker simulations available, but you can read about them here:
 
http://www.focusrite.com/products/vrm/vrm_box/
 
They only left out a couple of combinations that a lot of folks would probably like to have avaiable: "car with crappy speakers" and "car with good sound system" (but they do offer flat panel TV in bedroom and cheapo computer speakers in bedroom to slum around the low end of things).
 
Costs were kept down by using the USB connection to send stereo signal, which is picked up from the sound card S/PDIF output, back to the CPU for the virtual room modeling.  The enhanced signal is then sent back to the VRM Box for D/A conversion, amplification and output to the headphones.  The headphone level setting is independent of the sound card output setting, so changing the volume for headphones doesn't affect whatever level your monitors are set for in the sound card.
 
Very nice engineering effort IMO to offer highest quality for affordable price.

I have a question, does it simulate when the speakers can't handle the bass or does it just get rid of it ? For example if you get a bass heavy mix sounding good on the studio monitor sim and then switch to the computer speakers, does it just sound thin or does it cause distortion in the bass like it would in real life ?

I don't see it.  it looks to me like the soundcloud player is missing from the page.  I'm using IE7

I have a question, does it simulate when the speakers can't handle the bass or does it just get rid of it ? For example if you get a bass heavy mix sounding good on the studio monitor sim and then switch to the computer speakers, does it just sound thin or does it cause distortion in the bass like it would in real life ?

 
This is just my opinion ... others may feel differently.  First off, obviously the box cannot defy the laws of physics/mechanics/etc.  It doesn't turn your headphones into headphones with built in subwoofers.
 
What I think it does offer is a pleasant way to do some mixing with an ambient sound that's closer to not having headphones on.  The different speakers and room sizes also give one an easy way to try out a mix in different (virtual) environments without getting out of your chair.
 
But it would no doubt be foolhardy to not give a critical listen to any mix without the headphones at some point.  Additionally, it would probably be unwise to try to decide on the correct amount of reverb while the VRM capability was enabled.  The VRM contains some room accoustic simulation that's reverb-like itself.

dmbaer

I have a question, does it simulate when the speakers can't handle the bass or does it just get rid of it ? For example if you get a bass heavy mix sounding good on the studio monitor sim and then switch to the computer speakers, does it just sound thin or does it cause distortion in the bass like it would in real life ?

 
This is just my opinion ... others may feel differently.  First off, obviously the box cannot defy the laws of physics/mechanics/etc.  It doesn't turn your headphones into headphones with built in subwoofers.
 
What I think it does offer is a pleasant way to do some mixing with an ambient sound that's closer to not having headphones on.  The different speakers and room sizes also give one an easy way to try out a mix in different (virtual) environments without getting out of your chair.
 
But it would no doubt be foolhardy to not give a critical listen to any mix without the headphones at some point.  Additionally, it would probably be unwise to try to decide on the correct amount of reverb while the VRM capability was enabled.  The VRM contains some room accoustic simulation that's reverb-like itself.

My point was I don't want it to simulate the mix sounding "correct"  on different speakers, I want it to let me know when I've got it wrong.  If the simulation were good it would give me a distorted sound if the bass is too much for those little computer or TV speakers and I don't think that's what it does. I think it's just taking all the bass out so it ends up sounding just fine.   That type of simulation is not really valuable to me.  I need a simulation of how those speakers would react to the waveform in real life.

This just in ...
 
I was looking at the April issue of Sound on Sound last night and noticed a review of the VRM box.  The reviewer found a few things he took issue with, primarily the inflexibility of how a VRM Box gets integrated into a system ... presumably he was referring to the fact that if you don't have a free S/PDIF output port, you're SOL.  But for the most part, the review was quite positive.

SvenArne


I've been curious about this little box. How has it grown on you, Dmbaer?

Anyone who wanted mine would have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands.   :-)
 
Seriously, I just love it.  I'd have been happy to get a decent headphone amp for the money I paid for it.  As I said in my initial post, professionals may scoff at this sort of thing.  But, anyone faced with confined studio quarters or neighbors that must be kept happy about sound levels will love it.  I have neither of those constraints (although there is a spouse who is sometimes a "TURN-THAT-DOWN!" machine), but I still would not want to be without this.

I've had mine for about a month now and I find it very handy to be able to instantly switch to different environments on-the-fly. The only downside is the added latency and CPU hit.

i cant utilize the vrm box with sonar 8 my rig has a 3.4 ghz pentium 4 on xp but i can only use the box out of sonar i have a lexicon omega interface and for some reason the s/pdif isnt locked in with the vrm its pretty frustraitng because i purchased it for mix down and it doesnt seem to function in my daw im going to have to bounce entire mix downs in order to here it out of my daw to balance out my sound

I envision VRM being something that I will only use at the very end of the mixing process when latency and stability isn't so much of an issue. Any reason you like to use it while playing/recording keyboards, Dmbaer?

SvenArne


I envision VRM being something that I will only use at the very end of the mixing process when latency and stability isn't so much of an issue. Any reason you like to use it while playing/recording keyboards, Dmbaer?

If you're going to be spending a lot of time wearing headphones, the ambience the viritual room simulation adds makes the experience a little more pleasant, at least when using the studio or living room space and one of the higher end speaker simulations..  That's a pretty subjective opinion, obviously.  YMMV.

Sorry to hear people are having problems. But I still think I'm going to check it out though.

MusicMan100> Does it play nice with X1 when you use it as the main interface instead of slave via S/Pdif?

For mixing I wouldn't need the inputs anyway, so if the interface is solid at higher latencies I'd be happy.

Sven

I got the SAFFIRE 56 and the VRM to play nice together , only after I rolled back to X1.. X!B and the quickfixes will not allow them to work together ...

Has anyone compared this to TB Isone or Redline Monitor?
Just wondering what peoples opinions are.

Since this thread has been resurrected, here's an update.  I upgraded my DAW machine to a Windows 7 64-bit screamer.  I transferred my old M-audio 2496 card to the new machine.  Now when I boot up, the VRM Box SPDIF connection syncs about one time in five.  I have to unplug the USB cable (which supplies the power) and plug it back in once or twice before I get sync.  This is with the latest drivers for the card and the VRM Box.
 
At least it's a workaround, although certainly an annoyance.  Don't know if the audio card or the VRM Box is at fault.  Apart from that, I remain very happy with the device.