New X1 User: Questions

Hello all,
 
I've been using Sonar for a few years, started with 7 Producer and upgraded all the way up through 8.5.3 Producer.  Recently upgraded to Sonar X1 Expanded via the holiday sale and finally sat down and finished the upgrade process, and tried my hand at the beginnings of a session with X1.  I'm noticing a few things that I'm wondering if there's a workaround.  I did some searches for about an hour or so and didn't find any particularly satisfactory solutions or discussions about these particular issues.  If there's a thread I missed for whatever reason, I'm more than happy to go and read that if somebody provides a link.
 
First, here are my basic stats:
 
Sonar X1d Producer (Expanded)
Windows 7 32-bit Home Edition
Core i5 Duo-Core 2.3GHz Processor
3GB RAM
Internal hard drive is 7200rpm, handles OS and software
External hard drive is 7200rpm, handles all audio streaming
Interface is a MOTU 828 mkIII (the earlier, non-hybrid version)
Firewire card is TI chipset.
I'm also currently using a Mackie MCU, XT, and C4, all of which are the older "non-pro" versions and are run through MIDI, using a MOTU micro lite interface.  I won't always be using these controllers, such as when I record on-location.
 
(01) I'm not digging the new Control Bar compared to the older toolbar settings.  Long-story short: I can no longer get all the tools I expect to use available to me on the screen at one time.  The "click/unclick" method is inefficient at best and incredibly frustrating the rest of the time.  Is there a workaround to get a second Control Bar or to scroll through to the hidden buttons or something? Adding a larger/second monitor is NOT a good solution for me.  One of the key features of my setup (maybe THE key feature) is that it's all being done on a laptop and the entire rig itself is readily mobile.  The native monitor right now is a 15.6" widescreen (plenty enough real estate for most software, including past versions of Sonar) and the resolution is already maxed out.  If I can't add another control bar or scroll, Is there a way to maybe reduce the SIZE of the buttons/modules, so I can cram more small buttons on the same screen (actually, this is probably a preferred solution)?  I definitely find the buttons are much bigger than they need to be, and this would get me back some of my efficiency right-quick.
 
(02) I'm not sure if I found a bug or maybe the weirdest feature I've ever seen.  Generally, in the Console View I will hide any modules not currently being used.  However, when I hide the ProChannel modules, the ProChannel EQ on/off button remains in place, except it's now overlaid on top of whatever module moves to where the PC module used to be.  It can also still be interacted with, and it appears to actually work as it should (other than being displayed).  At first, I thought it was just a weird implementation, since it would overlay on top of the FX bin, like a subtle reminder that the PC EQ was also a plugin type effect.  But when it occurred to me that this is true of the OTHER PC modules, I started fiddling with the module displays and found that no matter what I did, I always saw the ProChannel EQ on/off button on the console view.  I can't NOT see it. Seriously:  I even hid ALL modules so that the console view should realistically just be channel names  My current workaround is to just leave the PC module open, but I can't imagine something this obvious has slipped through the cracks since initial release:  so I'm thinking maybe this is either unique to me or there's some fix I need to do to get rid of it.  I can potentially provide screenshots if needed.
 
(03) Is there a way to get the ProChannel functions viewable as individual pop-up windows, like regular FX bin plugins?  I don't mean add them to the FX bin, I mean have their interfaces appear in a movable window, like plugins do.  Currently I find the "standard" implementation of expanding the single channel awkward, and since my screen isn't apparently large enough to accommodate the "height" of the console with all the modules active, I need to do a LOT of scrolling to work with the ProChannel stuff.
 
(04) Is there a way to bring back OS-centric "basic" toolbar command buttons (like "New Session", "Open", "Save", "Save As...", etc.)?  I'm already missing those something fierce.  Using the File menu isn't killing me, but it's doubling the expected number of clicks to get to such universal program commands.
 
I figured it would be smarter to ask here before I try the "bug report" route in case these things have already been dealt with.  I'm coming to the game late enough that maybe something exists already.  That's the next stop after I give the forums a go.
 
On the whole, I'm pretty "blah" about X1 compared to 8.5.3 so far.  It HAS been just as solid for me as past versions so far (though I've heard that this probably wouldn't have been case prior to update version d).  It has NOT been as easy to get access to my tools, which has ALSO impeded me in learning the new stuff, or even using it.  If my choice is have quick access in the Control bar between the Transport and the new Screensets, which do you think I'll live without?
 
Lastly, does anybody have a good source for X1 color settings?  This whole new wave of "simpler and more streamlined" interface design (translation: "everything is bigger, there's way more unused real estate, and it's all gray!") that has become prevalent recently (see also: Gmail & other Google products, MS Office 2010) doesn't suit me particularly well.  At least with X1 I can try out new color schemes, but it's a fairly time consuming task and if somebody has a preset they already like, I can possibly start from there to save time.
 
I really WANT to like X1, as some of the features seem pretty cool, but right now I'm still struggling to get over the hump for what I would have expected to be pretty basic design considerations.
 
Thanks in advance for any advice!

1)      The multi- dock is your friend for conserving real estate. I would get comfortable with it. Screen sets are also helpful. Check out Fast Biker Boy’s videos. He has posted some real useful X1 videos and he loves screen sets.
3)      I’m pretty sure the Pro Channel modules are what you see is what you get.
 
Panup’s Sonar mods are the way to go of you want to change the look of things.
 
I hope this is somewhat helpful.

Rocky

stevec

It sounds as though you might be a good candidate for Panup's SONAR mods: http://www.sonarmods.com/forum/index.php  
You'll need to register, but those who use them really seem to like them.

Thanks, I'll look into this.

bluzdog


1)      The multi- dock is your friend for conserving real estate. I would get comfortable with it. Screen sets are also helpful. Check out Fast Biker Boy’s videos. He has posted some real useful X1 videos and he loves screen sets.
3)      I’m pretty sure the Pro Channel modules are what you see is what you get.
 
Panup’s Sonar mods are the way to go of you want to change the look of things.
 
I hope this is somewhat helpful.

Rocky

I'll check out the FBB videos, but how do you suggest making use of the multi-dock to conserve screen real estate?  As of now, I already don't have enough space to adequately show the console view completely:  I'm not seeing how cramming that down below the Track View makes it better.  Don't get me wrong:  the multi-dock looks like a good idea for a lot of stuff (MIDI editing in particular), but I don't get how the Console view is improved with it.

rlared


I had the problem with the Prochannel EQ on/off button always showing and hovering in the console too.  I updated to Producer Expanded and I did the X1D update and now I don't have the issue.  Have you updated to X1D?

I did update to X1d.  I'll try a re-install of the patch I guess.  Glad to hear somebody else at least saw this issue (and got it resolved): searching didn't turn up anything useful for me.

I find it enormously convenient to be working in a view and to hit D to make it disappear and reappear as needed.  Example:  Working in multiple track staff view, hit D to go back and look at or work in track view, and hit D again to bring back the staves.  Example: Have the lyrics maximized while cutting a vocal and then hit D to get them out of the way for a second to change a setting.

I also really like using the T-Handle on the V-Studio to use X-Ray to fade and reappear plugins (like Melodyne, Hollywood Strings, Vienna, or whatever) so I can work on stuff underneath without closing and reopening the plug ins.  (Maybe that was in 8.5: don't know since I jumped several releases to X1.)
 
I know people disagree—especially those who were very used to and proficient in 8.5—but I really like X1 and Skylight.  My main complaints are goofy bugs that Sonar was already famous for long before X1.

soens

Welcome to X1 and the forum. Here you will find a vast array of advice, praise, opinion, objections, discomfort, irregularities, and every once in a while... mutany followed by desertion.
 
Everyone who moves up to X1 experiences growing pains. It's a game changer. A different way of doing the same thing.

  I totally expect that.  But some of these changes seem kind of weird.  In particular the Control Bar issue.  If a module is hidden, telling us that and then not giving us any real way to access it is kind of saying "we recognized that this would be an issue during development: we chose not to bother figuring a solution." 

Have fun with X1. Probably every question you'll have has been asked a dozen times already so scower the forum for the answers.

I thought that myself.  But like I said, I spent about an hour searching around for answers to some of my questions and didn't find anything that I was sure was helpful, so I thought I'd ask.

konradh


I find it enormously convenient to be working in a view and to hit D to make it disappear and reappear as needed.  Example:  Working in multiple track staff view, hit D to go back and look at or work in track view, and hit D again to bring back the staves.  Example: Have the lyrics maximized while cutting a vocal and then hit D to get them out of the way for a second to change a setting.
 

Thanks, this sounds like a really good tip.  I'm going to look into that.

bluzdog


The multi-dock won't help with expanding the console view. All you can do is use the narrow strips and/or unselect items for gains there. I drag the console view all the way up and use the shortcut "c" to hide the control bar to gain height. I use the dock to store views I toggle between, reducing the items I need to have on the monitor at one time. YMMV

Rocky

I guess then I don't understand your original suggestion then.  What did you mean when you said that multi-dock could help conserve screen space?

soens

X1 was created for 1920x1080 resolution and above. Even at that some modules will be hidden. So those using smaller screens will be frustrated by not getting full use of the layout.
It forced me to get a bigger screen and a bigger laptop. My old one with 1280x1024 did just fine with Sonar 8.0 but not so well with X1.
 
The other way around it is to get 2 monitors and spread the view across them.
   
Steve

That's an interesting point, since Cakewalk's published specs for X1 are 1200x800 minimum resolution.  The idea that the software was designed to work well with substantially higher specs in mind than the minimums strikes me as a poor design philosophy.  The published requirements don't even suggest 1920x1080 as a "Recommended Minimum".  If that was the case, then maybe I wouldn't be as fixated on this.

As it stands now, since the Control Bar isn't apparently adjustable via screensets or some other quick-access method (tabbed browsing of the CB, reducing the size of modules/buttons, scrollable CB interface, additional/secondary CD windows: all of which I already put into feature requests and sent to Cake), getting to to the less-used modules turns into a chore, rather than a "streamlined interface."  I can't imagine any design team (particularly not one with a track record as solid as Cakewalk) saying that is an acceptable solution.

I'm not disputing that the Control Bar can be a useful feature as intended.  I'm saying that it doesn't appear to have been well-designed to that end for all potential users.  Considering it's one of the crux features of the new version, that strikes me as a poor implementation.  Or possibly an unfinished implementation.  Or at the very minimum, a strange implementation choice.

>>  I'm not disputing that the Control Bar can be a useful feature as intended. 
>>  I'm saying that it doesn't appear to have been well-designed to that end for all potential users.  
>> Considering it's one of the crux features of the new version, that strikes me as a poor implementation.  
>> Or possibly an unfinished implementation.  Or at the very minimum, a strange implementation choice.

You are not alone in this opinion.

Quick update:

Control Bar situation is still a hassle, but more manageable since I discovered that clicking on the mouse wheel will bring up a Floating Tool Module.  I don't think that's a great implementation, but it opens up space for two more smaller modules, including all the stuff I consider vital.  I'd prefer to also see Marker and Screenset info (particularly when I start to figure out how I want to use Screensets), but between hot keys and quick shifts: this will do for now.

I also considered simply using the Pro Channel features in the Inspector, since they show up there.  Except you can't scroll in the Inspector, so I can't even GET to some of the modules there.    I will have to learn to use the more cumbersome Console view implementation.

Good news is that the EQ on/off button has resolved itself.  Unfortunately, simply installing X1D over again didn't do anything, and neither did a roll-back and reinstall.  HOWEVER, I noticed that I had apparently not actually installed X1 Expanded on top of the regular Producer, and once I did that and then reinstalled X1D again, the bug went away.  Which suggests to me that Cakewalk fixed something in Expanded that didn't get fixed in the regular version.

Haven't installed any mods yet, as I wanted to try and clean up the known bugs as best I could before I did any 3rd party installations to improve workflow.  Will probably try some of those very soon.

quote<<< I also considered simply using the Pro Channel features in the Inspector, since they show up there. Except you can't scroll in the Inspector, so I can't even GET to some of the modules there. <<<<


You can scroll on pro-channel both in Inspector and console view, this was added to Expanded I think. As for Screensets; I got rid of that in the control bar as I simply use the keyborad "1-2-3-etc" to choose which sceenset I use, they get "saved" automatically so I don't need the screensets view always in the control. I also Dock Markers view so I don't need the Markers view there neither. As for the Floating Tool Module (both pressing wheel and T works) it is a simple yet great implementation imo.

Moseph

That's an interesting point, since Cakewalk's published specs for X1 are 1200x800 minimum resolution.  The idea that the software was designed to work well with substantially higher specs in mind than the minimums strikes me as a poor design philosophy.  The published requirements don't even suggest 1920x1080 as a "Recommended Minimum".  If that was the case, then maybe I wouldn't be as fixated on this.

You can run Sonar on 1200x800 but you're only getting half the picture. How many Toolbar modules are there? How many can you display on a 1200x800 screen? About half. If you try the higher res you'll see what I mean. It wouldn't be so bad if it was scrollable, but it's not and so is virtually useless on anything less than 1920x 1080... in my opinion.
 
With 1920x1080 in Console View I can only get 18 wide strips to show before scrolling becomes necessary.
 
"Minimum" requirements are rarely practical on higher end software like X1. Can you run it on that? Yes, hence the "modular" remove and replace design of the Toolbar. Having to constantly change the layout of your GUI while using it slows down productivity, though.
 
If you remove the Toolbar from the Skylight and float it in it's own window you can move it back and forth off the edge of the screen. But then it covers up your work space. In my mind this defeats any practicality of doing so.This was rarely if ever an issue in previous versions.
 
There's also a "Show All" feature but 3 modules still remain invisible.
 
Steve