Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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New article on X3 VST internals
Hi folks, This is mostly not intended for end users - I wrote it for the benefit of plugin developers who are testing their plugins in SONAR. The information in the article should be useful for diagnosing VST compatibility problems. If you are working with a vendor on a compatibility issue (especially with scanning) you can point them to this article. http://blog.cakewalk.com/...nar-x3-vst3-internals/
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Guitarmech111
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/25 11:44:34
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Thanks Noel, can you specify what vendors you sent this to, if any?
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8  Without a mess, there is no message
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/25 11:45:16
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Thanks for sharing the link.
best regards,
mike
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robert_e_bone
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/25 16:35:23
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VERY cool of you to write and post this.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Splat 
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/25 16:39:05
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Inner nerd happy. Thank you!
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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John
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/25 17:54:18
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I hope this will finally put to rest that Sonar still uses a VST wrapper.
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gswitz
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/25 20:29:48
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Noel, I wouldn't mind writing a VST, but I'm not really sure where to start. Thanks for the article. I don't think my skills are really up to the task of writing something people would prefer, but I often wonder if I wouldn't love writing them.
post edited by gswitz - 2014/01/25 22:25:32
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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bitflipper
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/25 21:57:52
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Geoff, check out the DSP and VST Development forum on kvr. Many VST coders hang out there, and the stickies include some helpful references.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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gswitz
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/25 22:26:21
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That's awesome, Bit! Thanks!!
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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mmorgan
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/25 23:29:18
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gswitz
That's awesome, Bit! Thanks!!
Yep, ++ Regards,
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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chuckebaby
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/26 01:00:03
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John
I hope this will finally put to rest that Sonar still uses a VST wrapper.
I actually thought the whole DAW was in a wrapper 
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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Goddard
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/26 10:30:49
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Thanks for the info Noel. Wrt silent buffer flagging, is that related to why the .ini file zero fill buffers option parameter setting in Sonar no longer seems to be present?
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Splat
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/26 17:42:31
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/26 17:47:14
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I'm not sure what ini file setting specifically you are referring to. There may have been an earlier setting that is now obsolete since I don't see anything configurable related to zero filling presently.
The silent buffer flagging actually relies on our internal zero fill flag that we have had from the 90's! Our old DX SDK had this capability much before VST, so the engine was already silent buffer aware. All we do now is propagate that state to the VST3 plugins so that they can take advantage of it.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/26 17:51:30
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Guitarmech111
Thanks Noel, can you specify what vendors you sent this to, if any?
I haven't sent this directly to many vendors since I only wrote this last week. I have shared some of this info on a piecemeal basis with a few of them in the past while troubleshooting, so figured it would be better to have this info in a central place. BTW I updated the article yesterday to include some more information on how to get logging information from the scanner. The next update will also include some more extensive logging that was added to the scanner.
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...wicked
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/27 19:38:39
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Man, if all this is true then why does SONAR have so much trouble picking up VST changes? Updated plugs, newer versions, upgraded SONAR versions...they all seem to produce random loss of attachment to the VST. And then your presets are totally hosed. Even if just that piece of data were accessible you could recreate projects in case of total meltdown. I've had several instances of even something like Rapture, in a rebuilt DAW it simply will not recognize Rapture. Hitting "replace synth" will do that, but you lose all the patch info.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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Guitarmech111
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/31 08:12:43
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Guitarmech111
Thanks Noel, can you specify what vendors you sent this to, if any?
I haven't sent this directly to many vendors since I only wrote this last week. I have shared some of this info on a piecemeal basis with a few of them in the past while troubleshooting, so figured it would be better to have this info in a central place.
BTW I updated the article yesterday to include some more information on how to get logging information from the scanner. The next update will also include some more extensive logging that was added to the scanner.
thanks Noel.
Peace, Conley Shepherd Joyful Noise Productions PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 Without a mess, there is no message
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John
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/31 13:23:24
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Is it OK to mix VST 2.4 and VST 3 plugins in the same project?
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/31 21:37:04
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In general yes from SONAR's point of view it makes no difference if you mix and match VST2 and VST3 plugins. However some vendors such as Waves don't support simultaneously running VST2 and VST3 versions of their plugins.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2014/01/31 23:03:25
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John
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/01/31 21:43:11
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Thank you Noel very much. I was trying to avoid the mixing but I do not have Waves plugins. I did vaguely recall that there was a problem with VST 2.4 and 3 being together. Now I recall the full thing as referring to Waves.
Thanks again. Now I can go hog wild with mixing and matching. LOL
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Goddard
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Re: New article on X3 VST internals
2014/02/08 05:44:18
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I'm not sure what ini file setting specifically you are referring to. There may have been an earlier setting that is now obsolete since I don't see anything configurable related to zero filling presently.
The silent buffer flagging actually relies on our internal zero fill flag that we have had from the 90's! Our old DX SDK had this capability much before VST, so the engine was already silent buffer aware. All we do now is propagate that state to the VST3 plugins so that they can take advantage of it.
Iirc, the setting (in aud.ini?) was called 'Zero Fill Method' (or something like that) and had several options for adding dither-like level variation when buffers were being zero-filled, to avoid putting certain cpu's (Pentium 4?) into a much slower high-precision mode.
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