New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire

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mixmkr
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2013/12/12 16:13:22 (permalink)

New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire

I've been putting this off for so long.... new studio computer.  The old XP machine still works great with Sonar 7.02PE, but I feel I'm slipping into the Dinosaur age.
I've got a PCI Layla 3G as well.
 
That said....I'm hesitant to get a new build with a PCI slot and keep the Layla and same with Firewire (and something to replace the Layla), as those formats seem to be definitely heading towards extinction too.  To some degree I'm a tad leary of getting Win 7 as well, as it is already getting a bit "dated" albeit seems to be a preference still with many.  I say that because I try to get at least 5+ years out of a audio computer as a minimum and in the past, I've gotten more.
 
Simple needs really...
1. Don't need mic pres on the audio interface.  4 inputs is fine, 8 would rarely be used. (why do so many put those pres on anyway??)
2. Want a computer that will half way stay current, but when the next "Omnisphere" comes out, want to be able to shove  128gigs of Ram in it, so it'll run.
3. Will continue to use a modest amount of VSTi and usually no more than 20 audio tracks.
4.  Yes, like plugins, so will need "grunt" to keep the computer current as new ones come out.
 
I keep putting things off, partly because of $$, but when I "leap" would like to do something with no regrets 3 years down the line.  So as goofy as it sounds, I'm waiting for Win8 (or ?) to settle in, Sonar X? to be the obvious choice, and a good [USB??] interface (under $800 if poss.)
 
Yes, I could get X3 now, an ADK build and something like a USB Motu or whatever... but figure my $3k will be better spent this early summer or late spring.  I'm guessing USB3 will be settled in as will SSDrives as well, but still need another 1/2 year to get their feet solid on the ground.
 
I'd love some comments...and realize that you can "wait" forever and just waste time as well.  Should I wait for my tax return and jump then, or is anytime a "good time" ??
 

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    mettelus
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/12 16:43:22 (permalink)
    I can understand your points, trust me. I ran the wheels off my XP machine and when it finally came time to get a new one I did a LOT of researching. I skipped Vista completely, and came online with Win7; and when I saw the issues with Win8, I think that may never be my cup of tea either. However, Win7 limits the amount of RAM you can load (32Gb). Worrying for the future tends to forsake the "here and now" of things. I even bought my first FW interface last month despite the "impending doom" of FW, and love the pre's/interface to no end.
     
    Even with the "planning" for the future part of it, the reality is that if I happened to stop at X3 with my current system, I think I would be happy in this "zone" for years to come (64-bit, ARA, VST3). I have a friend who is new to home recording and needs a real machine and I recently suggested they can build mine for ~$1300 (within reason) and even if they never go beyond X3 they will be set for years to come. Even at 2 1/2 years old, this machine runs the X3 Demo project at 14-17% CPU usage and ~50% RAM (and I only have 8GB, and 25% of that is "normal operation"). I have done a lot of high-end gaming, so rely on the graphics card to keep the RAM load down, which it does quite nicely; but my graphics card is "overkill" for a DAW.
     
    In some cases "new and high tech" can simply be "overpriced overkill," so please research a lot before jumping in.
     
    Edit: A good link to bookmark is http://www.cpubenchmark.net/ they maintain benchmarks of hardware, so can look at various lists, see the benchmark, and price point. It is a handy reference to get a better "apples to apples" comparison of things as you examine what you will get for your buck.
    post edited by mettelus - 2013/12/12 16:50:12

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    #2
    slartabartfast
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/12 18:28:33 (permalink)
    You should be able to run Windows 7 without major problems until January 2020. By then your latest apps may well not be supported under that system, but who knows. My guess is that Windows 7 will be the new Windows XP ie a lot of users and a lot of applications will continue to support it well into old age. Cakewalk may be an exception. They have a pretty limited staff, and it is more difficult to support two old operating systems then one new one, and easier to sell an application that runs on the newest system with or without backward compatibility.
     
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle
     
    http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifepolicy
     
    #3
    spacealf
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/12 19:24:19 (permalink)
    XP os is up for support until April 2014, and Windows 7 has been mentioned. I would hestitate on Windows 8.1 because of drivers and not made yet or whatever is the problem between Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 where it seems the drivers need to be changed from Windows 7 drivers that may work on Windows 8 but not Windows 8.1.
     
     

     
     
    #4
    Old55
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/14 11:17:24 (permalink)
    According to Microsoft, it looks like Win7 will allow up to 192GB of RAM for the X64 versions of Professional, Enterprise or Ultimate.  Home Basic is 8GB and Home Premium is 16GB.  All the 32-bit versions max out at 4GB.  
     
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_7
     
    I haven't needed that much memory so far, so I'm only sharing what I found and not speaking from experience.  

    Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
     
    X2(X3 pending hardware upgrade), Emulator X2, E-mu 1212M, Virtual String Machine
    #5
    spacealf
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/14 16:42:12 (permalink)
    Sonar Home Studio 7 works in Windows 7. (except some stuff that is probably not Cakewalks stuff.) even though 32-bit it seems to work fine for my purposes. Like to upgrade but that will be in a few months.
    64-bit version of Windows 7 Home Premium regular OS system.
     

     
     
    #6
    slartabartfast
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/14 17:05:04 (permalink)
    Old55
    According to Microsoft, it looks like Win7 will allow up to 192GB of RAM for the X64 versions of Professional, Enterprise or Ultimate.  Home Basic is 8GB and Home Premium is 16GB.  All the 32-bit versions max out at 4GB.  
     
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_7
     
    I haven't needed that much memory so far, so I'm only sharing what I found and not speaking from experience.  


     
    Good thing you do not need 192 GB of memory. The motherboard that will support that will probably not be built until Win 7 is a distant memory. The DAW that will benefit from even 32 GB is probably not coming soon either.
    #7
    Old55
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/15 03:13:32 (permalink)
    slartabartfast
    Old55
    According to Microsoft, it looks like Win7 will allow up to 192GB of RAM for the X64 versions of Professional, Enterprise or Ultimate.  Home Basic is 8GB and Home Premium is 16GB.  All the 32-bit versions max out at 4GB.  
     
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_7
     
    I haven't needed that much memory so far, so I'm only sharing what I found and not speaking from experience.  


     
    Good thing you do not need 192 GB of memory. The motherboard that will support that will probably not be built until Win 7 is a distant memory. The DAW that will benefit from even 32 GB is probably not coming soon either.


    There may be a couple of server motherboards out there that support 192GB, but they probably cost more than a whole system that any of us intend to build.  

    Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
     
    X2(X3 pending hardware upgrade), Emulator X2, E-mu 1212M, Virtual String Machine
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    fireberd
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/15 06:33:04 (permalink)
    Based on your thread subject, one thing to consider is PCI in most new motherboards.  It is not true PCI but a "bridge" from the PCIe bus.  There are reports on various forums that not all PCI cards work or work properly with the "bridged" PCI slots.  Most modern add on cards are now PCIe.
     
    As I have a program (Start8) that restores all desktop/start button capability in Windows 8/8.1, My 8.1 looks and works the same as my Windows 7 (I have a dual boot on the same hardware).  All my hardware, including the relatively old Frontier Tranzport works in Windows 8.1.  The only specific hardware device driver I needed for 8.1 was for my Roland Octa-Capture and Roland issued the 8.1 driver either on the day or the day after 8.1 was released.  All my recording software works perfectly in 8.1.  Even some very old software I have, including MS Office 2003 that is not supposed to be compatible, works in 8.1. 
     
    Microsoft has discontinued selling Windows 7, although there are many sites that still have copies and are selling it (until their stock is eliminated).
     

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    #9
    Vastman
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/16 03:52:39 (permalink)
    I too was hoping to wait till late next year (or longer, who knows?) for the haswell 6/8 core to arrive but my motherboard, which my i7 950 depended, went KAPUT!!!  After agonizing for well over a month whether to just replace the MB for my 2 generation out of date cpu, I made the decision to jump to the i7 4930 and add one of those new hi tec water coolers figuring that would future proof me for a couple years or more.... I mean, 6 cores/12 threads for under $500??? seems like a no brainer upgrade that'll handle anything I will throw at it for awhile (HA!!! Forgot about multiple DIVA's which flattened my 950) .
     
    Spent several all nighters reading every blog, benchmarking comparison, review, and forum post I could surface in reaching this decision but for quite awhile the 4930 is gonna reign the "affordable" mountain and is eminently overclockable if the need should arise...it runs way cooler than the older 3930 and up to 64 Gigs should be sufficient on the ivy boards needed to run it.
     
    As to firewire, I have a PCIe card for that... but if I had to buy an interface these days I'd just go usb2...latency seems better per talk around here...but my saffire is cool for now...
    post edited by Vastman - 2013/12/16 03:56:54

    Dana
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    Goddard
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/19 17:11:19 (permalink)
    X79 (and C6xx on server/workstation) for socket 2011 is the only current Intel PCH which still offers "native" PCI support afaik. PCI on all Haswell motherboards on socket 1150 is bridged afaik.
     
    If interested in keeping use of the Layla 3G on a more up-to-date and powerful platform, then a system based on an  i7-4820K or i7-4930K cpu on an X79 motherboard with 4-channel memory support and "native" PCI slot(s) could be a good choice performance-wise, especially when compared against the cost of a Haswell system PLUS a new audio/MIDI interface.
     
     
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    Vastman
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    Re: New computer, hesitant with PCI and Firewire 2013/12/19 18:55:22 (permalink)
    good points, God...
     
    btw, if you go for the 4930k, you might want to chose an Asus board for convenience as you need to have the latest bios installed before you can run the 6 core beheamouth.  Getting that bios onto the board before installing the 4930K is easy, as Asus implemented a system where you can flash a new bios before installing the cpu or even the motherboard in the computer, making it a snap.  You don't have to have an older X79 cpu handy...to enable updating.  Quite novel and very nifty...my buddies at the shop building my new machine were really impressed.  Asus has a video of it and easy instructions... 
     
    64 gigs of quad channel memory will do ya for anything but the most detailed video editing... I rarely use over 24-32 and have lots of sample packages running...
    post edited by Vastman - 2013/12/19 18:57:25

    Dana
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