New song. Help needed to tame cymbals

Author
optimus
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 238
  • Joined: 2011/12/20 02:35:41
  • Location: Whyalla, South Australia
  • Status: offline
2017/03/20 04:21:02 (permalink)

New song. Help needed to tame cymbals

I've posted this song because I would like some help on taming the cymbals which have bled into the drum mics during recording. I have tried using the Sonitus Multiband compressor, which has helped, but it also affects the tonality of the snare.
Is there a better way to reduce the wash of those damned cymbals short of re-recording the drums.
Also, anything else you can suggest for this mix would be appreciated.
 
Cheers
 
https://soundcloud.com/wal-pawlik/fast

Sonar Platinum, Roland Octacapture, Windows 7, i5 processor, 8 Gb RAM
#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    synkrotron
    Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4030
    • Joined: 2006/04/28 16:21:21
    • Location: Warrington, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/20 04:42:31 (permalink)
    I'm no expert but when I used to record the drummer in our band I used two condenser mics over the cymbals, a SM58 beta on the snare and an AKG kick drum mic.

    Bleed was unavoidable, across all mics but I only ever used straight EQ to selectively filter out "unwanted" frequencies from the resulting tracks. I would never have considered using a multi band compressor.

    Cheers

    andy

    http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/
    Intel Core™i7-3820QM Quad Core Mobile Processor 2.70GHz 8MB cache | Intel HM77 Express Chipset | 16GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 RAM | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675M - 2.0GB DDR5 Video RAM | 500GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | Windows 10 Pro | Roland OCTA-CAPTURE | Sonar Platinum | Too many VSTi's to list here | KRK KNS-8400 Headphones | Roland JP-8000 | Oberheim OB12 | Novation Nova | Gibson SG Special | PRS Studio
    #2
    Wookiee
    Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
    • Total Posts : 12197
    • Joined: 2007/01/16 06:19:43
    • Location: Akahaocwora - Village Yoh Kay
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/20 14:30:45 (permalink)
    First a question about how you recorded the drums are they multi miked?

    Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
    Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
    Primary I7 4790K, 32GB Ram, 500Gb SSD OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD, Saffire Pro 40. Win 10 64Bit
    Secondary I7 2600K, 8GB Ram 1Tb OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD's AudioBox USB, Win 10 64Bit
    SONAR Platinum 64Bit, Adam's A7x's - Event 20/20's, Arturia V4 & V5, Korg Digital Legacy, Softube Modular, Keystation Pro 88, USB-MidiSport 8x8 
    #3
    daryl1968
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10196
    • Joined: 2010/06/01 22:51:43
    • Location: Englishman in (Rochester) NY
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/20 14:53:01 (permalink)
    how annoying - I've been there myself with a live recording, so I didn't have any choice but to go in and surgically eq everything. 
    If your drummer doesn't have an issue with it, you could try drum replacer - find snare sounds that match what you/he were looking for and replace......
    #4
    daryl1968
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10196
    • Joined: 2010/06/01 22:51:43
    • Location: Englishman in (Rochester) NY
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/20 14:55:40 (permalink)
    oh, and good song (and performances) by the way
     
    #5
    Voda La Void
    Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 398
    • Joined: 2011/02/12 09:15:07
    • Location: Broken Arrow, OK
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/20 16:44:00 (permalink)
    Yeah, really need to know how you're miking and recording.  

    The remedy for overwhelming cymbal wash in my set up came from close mic'ing all the drums, trying to keep the mic's 90 degree adjacent to cymbals as much as possible, using 2 condenser overheads above and on-axis with cymbals, adding finesse to cymbal hits, and then EQ'ing those overheads for high frequency focus.  After adding a gate and compressor to each drum mic track, it seems to be just enough to allow the high frequency cymbal hits to come through, dancing on top of everything, but cut back where it should be in the mix.   

    Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
    Voda La Void Youtube Channel
    www.vodalavoid.com
     
    #6
    Lynn
    Max Output Level: -17 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5827
    • Joined: 2003/11/12 18:36:16
    • Location: Kansas City, MO
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/20 23:03:47 (permalink)
    I don't think that the cymbals are the problem.  I agree with Daryl, that the drum replacer in Splat might be the answer for you.  Mic bleed isn't always bad, in fact, used creatively, it can add realism to the drums.  Overall, the song is good as well as the performances.  I think you may be closer than you think.

    All the best,
    Lynn

    my songs
    www.soundclick.com/lynnwilson

    www.youtube.com/lywilson
    my videos

     Sonar Platinum @ 64bits| i7 860 | 8 gigs ram | W10 @ 64 bits | RME FF 400
    #7
    optimus
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 238
    • Joined: 2011/12/20 02:35:41
    • Location: Whyalla, South Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/21 00:11:06 (permalink)
    Wookiee
    First a question about how you recorded the drums are they multi miked?


    I had set up kick, snare, hihat, small tom, floor tom and a single overhead. Ended up not using the toms because of too much spill from everything and just mixed in a hair of overhead.
     
    Synkrotron, Daryl, Lynn, I tried to eq, but the cymbals bled into everything which is why I tried the Sonitus multiband compressor, which has had some effect, and thanks for the vote on the song. It was written by our guitar player who's feeling a little nostalgia. Thinks he's getting old. I haven't tried drum replacement, so I guess I will need to read up on it.
     
    Voda La Void, yes, I think that better mic placement may be the answer in future recordings.
     
    Thanks for your comments
    Cheers
    Wal

    Sonar Platinum, Roland Octacapture, Windows 7, i5 processor, 8 Gb RAM
    #8
    emeraldsoul
    Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1374
    • Joined: 2009/01/02 23:16:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/21 03:53:51 (permalink)
    If you turn the key and slide it into third, aren't you going to lug away in hurks and jerks, eventually ruining your transmission?  :)   If the neighbors are watching, you'll be embarrassed. First, second, then third. Check the owner's manual.
     
    I would totally not worry about those cymbals, do what you can. I would also pick an eq, get it on those drum tracks as a low pass filter, and cut away. But as you said you already tried that.
     
    My point is, it's a great song with great performances (+1 for the nostalgia) and your cymbals are mixed far down enough so they aren't going to hurt anyone as they are.
     
    cheers,
    -Tom

    Sonar Artist - ADK Quad core i7 3.4 ghz - 32 gb ram - Win7 - RME Fireface UFX II - - Songs in my Head.
    And, sometimes, on the internet: www.songsbytom.com
    my Soundcloud page
    my YouTube video channel
     
    solo piano CD  The Sweet Slow Fade
     
     
    #9
    optimus
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 238
    • Joined: 2011/12/20 02:35:41
    • Location: Whyalla, South Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/21 07:23:58 (permalink)
    emeraldsoul
    If you turn the key and slide it into third, aren't you going to lug away in hurks and jerks, eventually ruining your transmission?  :)   If the neighbors are watching, you'll be embarrassed. First, second, then third. Check the owner's manual.
     


    Ha Ha, Tom, if you listen carefully it is actually, "slid her into first". Just artistic license and poor diction by the singer.
     
    Thanks for listening and the vote for the song. Appreciate it as I'm actually in awe of you guys that have respond to my post. I have long admired your collective works.
     
    I don't often respond to other people's post as I often don't feel qualified, but I lurk a lot and listen.
     
    Cheers
    Wal
     

    Sonar Platinum, Roland Octacapture, Windows 7, i5 processor, 8 Gb RAM
    #10
    synkrotron
    Max Output Level: -35 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4030
    • Joined: 2006/04/28 16:21:21
    • Location: Warrington, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/21 08:08:43 (permalink)
    optimus
    as I often don't feel qualified




     
    That's me in a nutshell... I still respond though, even if it's just to say something terrible like "nice."

    http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/
    Intel Core™i7-3820QM Quad Core Mobile Processor 2.70GHz 8MB cache | Intel HM77 Express Chipset | 16GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 RAM | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675M - 2.0GB DDR5 Video RAM | 500GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | Windows 10 Pro | Roland OCTA-CAPTURE | Sonar Platinum | Too many VSTi's to list here | KRK KNS-8400 Headphones | Roland JP-8000 | Oberheim OB12 | Novation Nova | Gibson SG Special | PRS Studio
    #11
    gswitz
    Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5117
    • Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
    • Location: Richmond Virginia USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/21 11:07:56 (permalink)
    When I mix drums, I often take time to split the clips around every drum hit and mute the clip between hits. Then, I select all the clips and add a fade in and a fade out. Now, the bleed comes up and disappears in a second.

    It can be worth a try.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one is me trying to match TH3 sounds to real amp sounds.
    #12
    daryl1968
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10196
    • Joined: 2010/06/01 22:51:43
    • Location: Englishman in (Rochester) NY
    • Status: offline
    Re: New song. Help needed to tame cymbals 2017/03/21 11:33:00 (permalink)
    Another thought. Drag and drop the snare track into a midi track so melodyne turns the hits into midi notes. Then use snare samples to replace......
    All the tools are there within Sonar.
    #13
    Jump to:
    © 2017 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1