New to MIDI Instruments, confused

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chris2002rock
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2011/07/10 20:10:12 (permalink)

New to MIDI Instruments, confused

I have played guitar since 1978, started using PCs in 1992, started recording a little in 2004, and used Adobe Audition, plus a bundled Cakewalk product DAW that came with a Digitech RPx400. I totally understand how it works, my problems seem to come from 2 areas, one is ASIO and issues using more than 1 instrument to record. And then there is MIDI.

I will start with MIDI because I think it is shorter, but now I realize the problems are kind of all related maybe...

I bought an Alesis QX49, which seems like an amazing deal to get any keyboard with velocity sensitive keys seems crucial to use if you don't want it to sound like a machine. Fine, got that. But although it has USB, I can only barely get it to work, when I use a utility called Midiox. I know it's not "broken" but none of anyone's document show how a guy can hook the mofo up. I have done audio video production on Adobe Premiere, including digitizing analog tapes, I figure stuff out. I am not an idiot. The problem seems to be that every midi document is written with so many assumptions, there is simply no source for me to follow a checklist, here: do this..

F'ing maddening. It makes me suicidal some times, and no I am not joking. I am disabled and can not go and hang out at places to get them to show me. I think it's insane how poorly documented so many things are, and MIDI is one of them.

I have a Windows 7 64-bit Pro (so it has compatibility mode), I have 2 Radeon AV cards, each using HDMI audio if need be, I have another 7.1 chipset integrated in the MOBO like everyone else. My serious interfaces are the Edirol UA4FX and a M-Audio Black Box. Both work great, as far as I can tell, but it might be a problem with ASIO, because I can only record all 4 tracks when I use Audtion and use its ASIO driver. I seems like I used to be able to use the Audition driver and then use other hardware on separate tracks for example. Somewhere I also have a very basic Snakelite or something like that, just a guitar cable with builtin audio input chipset.

So that is the recording problem, and the problem with MIDI is that I can only occasionally get it to make tones, but never once have I been able to say, play a scale past a single octave. What I think it does is plays auxiliary tones, because it will only play a certain range of keys, and not with normal pivch intervals. Most of the time I get no sound. I have no idea how to connect it, I have written the manufacturer, who told me to contact Ableton and Ableton told me to contact Alesis. Seriously, i get really discouraged even writing this. Even if I do get it running, why do things have to torture people with expectations? Here I am thinking I can offer lessons or do something useful, the burden just getting that thing, and I guess what I do have is all miraculous, but this is what makes me so angry tht when I was able to work, I took great care documenting my projects. I want to know that people can use my work, not just to create a pile of something that looks like I made an effort. I can't handle how many people just care about looking busy and creating excuses, making life in America a big joke. No wonder AT ALL why the economy is this way. People learn how to set up their home budgets at the same time they learn how to document and communicate.

I don't even know what to do next. It is a readl burden just setting my guitar in position to play, and I can only ever some times get the single track to record, but I can't get anything other than Black Box IO for my guitar and mic, but now it is worse because I tried to use ASIO4ALL to fix my problems and looks like I made it worse because now it works for dry only (Black Box has 1) guitar dry 2) Mic dry 3 and 4 Stereo post FX with drums, and what you do is choose which of the mic or guitar you want to be processed. So...

I have the Edirol UA4FX connected as my main audio chipset that is actually used as default device and connected to an analog Audio Video receiver to process Dolby analog. I use the Radeon HDMI audio only as an alternative if I need to test audio when I get no sound, I can try it since it is already routed to a set of speakers in one of the displays.


SUmmary: My machine is a mess, I don't know how to get this stuff to work together. The ASIO and MIDI documentation is really not clear. I get the theories, I really do. I don't care if I use direct hardware access. The machine is very fast. There are so many esoteric decisions to make, and even today, there seems to be no software that can step me through a setup routine.

I bought several MIDI cables, I thought even though it is USB, maybe being able to connect the MIDI output to something, but the Black Box doesn't have a midi jack. Maybe if I connect one of the MIDI keyboard ports to the MIDI input on the Edirol?

I am willing to buy an affordable box (another) if my Edirol won't work, and I looked at Cakewalk products, the USB devices, one bundled with Guitar Tracks 4 pro, looks really cool but does not seem to work with 64-bit windows? It is not clear about this. I bought Pro specifically for running in compatibility mode, but again, there is no document that really tells you what works, what is required etc.

It just sucks. Everything sucks. It should be so much better by now, but look at the economy after the banking crisis, and nobody has any pride in doing their work properly, so that others can be understood. Everything is about stroking people's emotions and BS. I can't take it. I can't get any help. All I can pray for is that somebody will be able to understand and explain my problems.

That is the other thing, I read lots of people like me asking questions and they are too vague, not wanting to look stupid. There are so many message threads that I read and not one helped. I don't know if the people looking for answers got any useful ones. We all bluff each other endlessly.

I am clueless here and I don't mind anyone knowing. I can't find a single document that actually says "here is how to connect a MIDI keyboard." If I try to return it, they will give me a hard time even though they can't even tell me what the system requires. The blind leading the blind. How depressing.







 


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    xtrumpeter
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    Re:New to MIDI Instruments, confused 2011/07/11 23:55:26 (permalink)
    Yes, it all can be confusing.  I've been playing around with various MIDI instruments and software since the mid 80's, and I find today's instruments and software to be much more complex than it used to be.  I don't have any of your specific hardware or software but I'll try to point you towards success with MIDI.  I'm not an audio guy so I can't make any suggestions regarding ASIO.

    It sounds like your keyboard can connect with either MIDI cables or USB.  If your audio interface has a MIDI input then you have a choice of either using MIDI cables or USB.  In either case you'll need to have the appropriate drivers installed.  Since you were successful with MIDIOX, that means you've got the driver installed correctly. 

    Whatever audio software you're using, you'll need to tell it which MIDI input to use.  Your MIDI interface driver or keyboard's USB driver should appear in a list in the program's MIDI input configuration (in Cakewalk Sonar X1 that would be in Preferences > MIDI > Devices).  If it doesn't show up, you might have to ensure you're using a 64-bit driver with a 64-bit application, or 32-bit driver with a 32-bit application.  If you have both MIDI and USB inputs from the keyboard, make sure you choose the one you actually have plugged in.  Some USB keyboards like Roland's A-Pro series will appear to have multiple USB MIDI inputs, so you would have to make sure the correct one is selected.

    If you're using MIDI cables, connect the keyboard "OUT" to the interface "IN" to be able to record from the keyboard.  If the keyboard is also capable of making sounds, also connect the interface "OUT" to the keyboard "IN".

    You also may need to power up the keyboard before you start your audio application, or the app may not see the keyboard's USB driver.  If you use a MIDI interface with real MIDI cables, you may need to make sure the interface is plugged into the USB port before starting the app.  The general rule is to make sure everything is plugged in and powered up before you start the audio app.

    Now that the audio app sees the driver, you have to tell it to actually use it.  Assuming you're using a multi-track audio app, you probably need to associate the MIDI input to a track, as well as assigning an output to the track.  This step is necessary because you might have multiple input devices so you have to tell it which one to listen to, especially if you might be recording multiple devices at once into different tracks if you and your buddies are playing together.  You also may have to specify which channel to listen to.  Most devices default to channel 1, so that usually works.  Some software may let you specify "omni" which means listen to all channels.  If in doubt and you're only trying to record one track at a time, go ahead and choose "omni".

    At this point you should be able to record notes into the track, although it may not make any sounds.  Go ahead and record something and look at the track to make sure notes are being recorded, even if you don't hear anything.  This ensures you have the input setup correctly.

    To make sounds, assign an output to the track.  The output might be a softsynth or an external MIDI device.  If external, you would have to choose the interface and the channel similar to how you assigned the input.  Once this is done, when you playback your recorded track you should now hear it.

    To be able to hear sounds while you're playing, you need to have input echo enabled in your audio software to tell it to copy notes from input to output.  It may have various names, and you may have to select it on the input track and/or the output track.  But once you've got this set, you should be able to play your scale and hear the notes.

    I get tripped up the most by having the wrong input assigned to the track, or not having input echo set on the track.  So either I'm playing and the software isn't listening, or it's listening but not echoing it to the output.

    Another gotcha with some USB devices is that they need to always be plugged into the same USB port.  If you plug it into a different USB port, it may look like a different device to the software, which means you have to go through the trouble of reassigning your inputs and/or outputs.  That happens to some USB devices but not all.  Avoid this problem by always using the same USB port for each device.

    Hopefully this gets you over your hurdle with MIDI.  I hope this didn't sound too simplistic, but when things get complex I find it's best to step back and take a methodical approach, one step at a time.  
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    thwclw
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    Re:New to MIDI Instruments, confused 2011/08/05 08:54:49 (permalink)
    Thanks to xtrumpeter for his cogent and thoughtful reply.
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