Next sfz synth?

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mumpcake
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2006/03/09 00:40:19 (permalink)

Next sfz synth?

I thought I read in passing a comment that the next CW synth would be sfz based. Any ideas what this could be? I'm tempted to think that this could employ some type of granular synthesis.
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    lost sheep
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/09 03:53:40 (permalink)
    I would like to think it will be Velocity II. A complete make over so it joins the DimPro / Rapture family (and we can reskin it ). Although I haven't used them yet I know there are a lot of quality drum sounds already in DimPro just waiting to be put into a VST with a more drum orientated front end.

    Beyond that I would like to see an instrument which responds to every little tweak of performance input; much like playing the Garritan Stradivarius. I know some of this is already in DimPro, but the SFZ files could take a "solo" instrument to a whole new level. I don't want hundreds of knobs and layers of programability on the front end, just back to basics dynamic control, filter and amp envelopes. No common FX e.g. reverb and delay etc. I want a synth that rewards performance input (bit like the DP Saxes) with tonal variation and dynamics through a range of expandable preset voices.

    With all the PC power we have these days is it a lot to ask that the synth / human interface is reviewed?
    #2
    oroboros
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/09 04:15:51 (permalink)
    I would like to think it will be Velocity II.
    I'm with you hoping it'll be Velocity II. They've got a synth sampler (which can import single waveform samples) and a wavetable synth (which can import samples) covered. Really, what more on that front is there? (No, sound theory people, please don't answer this.) Sure, granular, I suppose, to take on the Cameleon 5000 (though, really, I'd prefer this added to Rap 2.0). What completely new synth are they going to create based upon the couple of crumbs not included in either Dim or Rap? I guess there are a couple of tricks still floating out there. But a drum / sample pad instrument, like Battery or Guru, would fit perfectly with the lineup they already have. That or a modular synth.

    To think, at one time P5 was a $429 MSRP app.

    I think that technology and music has always been together, and I think music is science, anyway. - Vangelis

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    #3
    Paradroid
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/09 04:26:04 (permalink)
    Velocity II

    Bang on. But let's go one better: let's add RXP/Battery/LiveSlice/Guru to that gang-bang (hey, you ‘bang’ drums, right?) and only keep the best genes. Something that knew how to take care of breakbeats and trad. drum kit progs would be wild.

    I don't want hundreds of knobs and layers of programability on the front end, just back to basics dynamic control, filter and amp envelopes.

    Both the helm and the engine of room of that particular ship fit to sail.

    All you need now is someone to actually do the hard time to record & program up some .sfz patches that do all that you mentioned. Even if we ignore the mad DSP potential of the sfz engine, there's so much power in the layering, velocity/controller/random/sequence switching, mute groups, etc. that isn't utilised in the Dimension Pro .sfzs that it's a wonder René hasn't chartered a rocket to another planet already.

    Seriously, it's a cool idea: really, really complex instrument models that respond in near infinitely varying ways.
    #4
    Paradroid
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/09 04:30:19 (permalink)
    I'm with you hoping it'll be Velocity II.

    Dang. You beat me too it… You musta hit ‘OK’ just before you made my post redundant.
    #5
    JazzSinger
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/09 06:06:35 (permalink)
    Pardon my ignorance: what's Velocity II?

    ***

    Back to the topic: My DimPro just arrived and I am looking forward to finding time to learn how the Resonator works and what I can do with it.

    I find it remarkable that, in the world of hardware synths, if a new synthesis technology comes out (like FM, Roland's D50 LA synths, or Yamaha's VL modelling), the world gasps and it takes some time to absorb this new concept.

    Here we have this new Resonator, and it barely gets a mention.

    As I understand it, it has similarities to the VL70m, but is more based on impulse excitation, as opposed to constant (reed, bow, wind) excitation as in the VL.

    As you can see, I'm happy until I can get my head around this new toy, so I agree with now looking at taming the controls.
    #6
    dougsyo
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/09 10:04:05 (permalink)
    It's a well-known fact that Rene plays his cards close to his chest. By the time he puts up a demo track, what he's working on is close to market.

    Doug
    #7
    oroboros
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/09 14:59:13 (permalink)
    Pardon my ignorance: what's Velocity II?
    A synth that doesn't exist, that we hope someday will, based on the drum sampler included in Project5, called ... Velocity.

    To think, at one time P5 was a $429 MSRP app.

    I think that technology and music has always been together, and I think music is science, anyway. - Vangelis

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    #8
    lawapa
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/09 21:12:08 (permalink)
    It's a well-known fact that Rene plays his cards close to his chest. By the time he puts up a demo track, what he's working on is close to market.

    I second this sentiment; The WOW factor in all of his work keeps me coming back for more.

    How could you improve velocity? Add more slices? What it does is pretty good as it stands with loops/audio. I guess more slots for hits but at some point you could get lost with too many.
    #9
    mumpcake
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/09 21:13:04 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: oroboros

    I would like to think it will be Velocity II.
    I'm with you hoping it'll be Velocity II. They've got a synth sampler (which can import single waveform samples) and a wavetable synth (which can import samples) covered. Really, what more on that front is there? (No, sound theory people, please don't answer this.) Sure, granular, I suppose, to take on the Cameleon 5000 (though, really, I'd prefer this added to Rap 2.0).


    Cameleon 5000 is an additive synth, not granular.
    #10
    oroboros
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/10 18:34:17 (permalink)
    You are correct. My bad. Confusing it with something else, apparently.

    To think, at one time P5 was a $429 MSRP app.

    I think that technology and music has always been together, and I think music is science, anyway. - Vangelis

    The Other P5 Forum
    #11
    b rock
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/10 18:50:00 (permalink)
    the next CW synth would be sfz based. Any ideas what this could be?
    Things have followed a logical progression in Cake's Instruments line. Build on an established developer's products, and refine & expand [R&E]. Distribute the original line, & test the new waters with Dimension in Project5 V2. Refine that product and offer it standalone. Refine that concept even further, and expand on not only the existing line, but expand on Dimension's feature set as well. Focus on source sounds for the synth- (not sample-) synthesist, and call it Rapture.

    So what 'sound source' will be next in line to enter the R&E arena? Coming up: a physical modeling synth. I'm sure of it.
    Here's what I think: Rene has already written this completely, and he's waiting for CPU & the state-of-the-art to catch up.
    #12
    oroboros
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/10 19:49:24 (permalink)
    Coming up: a physical modeling synth. I'm sure of it.

    Hmm. Such as, in terms of a product comparison, think you?

    Branching into other OSs, Cake is, too.

    To think, at one time P5 was a $429 MSRP app.

    I think that technology and music has always been together, and I think music is science, anyway. - Vangelis

    The Other P5 Forum
    #13
    lawapa
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/10 20:43:05 (permalink)
    Well, We do need more on this Mr. B. Ya can't just waltz in here, drop the big one without the details ;)+)

    I know, all evidence is scetchy at best. And predicting Rene's next move is more art than science. And we all know he never gives up the details till it's closing time. And to be sure sacraficing a goat and reading entrails in just not my cup 'o' tea. Hey I still don't have rapture yet. and no one local would even venture a guess as to when it will hit the shelves. Yea I know just call Paul at sweetwater and do the deed. I was giving my local a chance at a sale here. Was I wrong? Na but I tried my best.
    #14
    Paradroid
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/10 22:12:45 (permalink)
    Coming up: a physical modeling synth. I'm sure of it.

    Heh, you may well be right. I'd love to see everything René has kicking around his HD. However, the topic was “what's next” so I reckon that particular hypothetical beast is still a few steps further along on the CW master plan.

    I do think that something that you hit & bang would be well received though, considering the consistent natterings about sfz drums over the years.
    #15
    lawapa
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/10 23:20:12 (permalink)
    Rene has stated in the past that he, well, dislikes the drum synth thing. And well you can do drums very well in Dimension can't ya? And with guru from fxpansion what more could you need. I think he just see the field as being crowded? Every time I go predicting what's next I miss the mark by a wide margin ;)+) It's just speculation but I do miss regularly
    #16
    Paradroid
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/11 00:32:51 (permalink)
    And well you can do drums very well in Dimension can't ya?

    You can do them well but can't mix them well. Multi-outs, plz.
    #17
    fresh101
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/11 14:12:12 (permalink)
    I would like to think it will be Velocity II


    Add my vote too that one. I love Velocity but it could be so much more.

    Also, Cyclone could reeeeally use an update.
    #18
    subgeek
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/11 23:32:14 (permalink)
    i'm hoping it's a great new loop/slicing groove synth. i was excited by the sliced grooves/beats in dimension, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to do that with original loops. like fresh, i think cyclone is a neat idea, but not really the best implementation.
    #19
    Paradroid
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/12 07:12:39 (permalink)
    there doesn't seem to be an easy way to do that with original loops

    Think again!

    The next version of Zero-X's BeatCreator will support the sfz Synchronized Loop format. It will also include various modes including support for sfz & ACIDized formats from the one source file, full support for RXP (graphical re-ordering & triggering of slices) and, of course, special Dimension & Rapture modes. It's already an awesome prog and the addition of sfz export will make for one mean beat slicing tool. Read more here.

    P.S. — BeatCreator can also convert REX loops to sfz format too…
    #20
    lawapa
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/12 12:05:28 (permalink)
    Zero-x has not updated there site to include SFZ and acid as supported formats. Would this be under rex file support? where you convert to rex.
    #21
    Paradroid
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/12 14:58:03 (permalink)
    Zero-x has not updated there site to include SFZ and acid as supported formats

    ACID has been supported forever but sfz is new. There's nothing on the site yet but I've been Beta testing for Peter and can confirm that the sfz export function is outstanding: all the right options and high quality results. I guess my heads up was more to say that it's coming soon and in the meantime you might want to check out the rest of the prog.

    I'll keep you posted RE: release date.
    #22
    AT
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/12 16:48:48 (permalink)
    Paradroid,

    nice program, don't know how I missed it before.

    Oh, and nice crockagator. Or is it a picture of B-Rock?

    @

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #23
    lawapa
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/12 18:55:50 (permalink)
    Thanks PD! This being able to export to sfz where each slice is a unique hit per midi through Dimension engine makes it worth a pot 'o' gold. I would think the Dpro engine is a step above velocity/cyclone? The 2 other slice manipulators? See I have some vocal loops I want to chop and use for add on to Dimension. I could just cut it up but If I export to and region that loop I can then just use that part in a synth sound?
    #24
    Paradroid
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/13 06:35:19 (permalink)
    Oh, and nice crockagator.

    Schni Schna schnappy schnappy schnappy Schnapp

    Err…

    Yes, BeatCreator is pretty, um, snappy for editing the meta-data that makes up an ACIDized .wav file. It also has a great auto-slice algo and a lovely-on-the-eyes interploated waveform view.

    Larry, you're really thinking now: with your knowledge of sfz you could easily edit the sfz output produced by BeatCreator to do everything you speak of. BC is a loop-based editor but you can use it to mark out regions in a .wav and then trigger them via sfz according to keyzones, random, sequence, whatever. More on that later: once the sfz version of BC is out I'll step up and do some proper tutorials, true crockagator style.

    Gotta run, still too many exposed teeth around here…
    #25
    rockem sockem robot
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/16 14:45:25 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: lost sheep

    I haven't used them yet I know there are a lot of quality drum sounds already in DimPro just waiting to be put into a VST with a more drum orientated front end.



    There are a lot of drums included with Dimension Pro, but they weren't my cup of tea. Probably tough to please everyone when putting together such a large free library.

    I bought the Smart Loops Trap Kit definitely worth checking out if you want real sounding drums for Dimension.

    Rock
    #26
    lost sheep
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/16 16:51:57 (permalink)
    Rock: The wish for Velocity II has more to do with usability than any particular sample set. As Paradroid has commented, Dimension doesn't really work too well when it comes to drum mixing. What would be cool is the ability to use multilayer sfz's (Smart Loops or Dimension) in a drum synth with multi outs and an updated friendlier drum orientated GUI. With such a "synth" and appropriate seperate channel compression / gating / de-essing / reverb those samples would be a lot more useable.
    #27
    rockem sockem robot
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/16 23:09:32 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: lost sheep

    Rock: Dimension doesn't really work too well when it comes to drum mixing. What would be cool is the ability to use multilayer sfz's (Smart Loops or Dimension) in a drum synth with multi outs and an updated friendlier drum orientated GUI. With such a "synth" and appropriate seperate channel compression / gating / de-essing / reverb those samples would be a lot more useable.


    Ok, now I understand what you're getting at. I was just focusing on your comment about the drum samples that were included with Dimension Pro.

    I agree Dimension isn't the greatest for mixing drums, but it can work and is better than the gear I had a couple years ago (or even months ago) More elements could be a good first step, and then being able to patch in different FX on the output of each element would be really useful.

    Rock
    #28
    lawapa
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/16 23:28:01 (permalink)
    More elements could be a good first step, and then being able to patch in different FX on the output of each element would be really useful.


    Paradroid Are you really going to pass on an opertunity like this? I'll start, Rapture? More elements! Loads sfz files, And you can specify all effects param's in the file itself. Is this a good start? Or does the thought of opcodes put you off. I does me to some extent but I know it can work very well on a few experiments I've tried.
    #29
    Paradroid
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    RE: Next sfz synth? 2006/03/17 04:28:50 (permalink)
    you can specify all effects param's in the file itself. Is this a good start?

    It's a very good start! I've been doing that for quite a while now (esp. good once you understand how bussing works in sfz: there's four FX busses with individual sends per <group> & <region>. Yummy!)

    The showstopper for me is the reverb. It's the only thing with the RGC stamp that I'm not falling head of heels for. Everyone's got their own set of taste buds when it comes to reverb (I'm a RoomVerb M2 fan myself) and I long to apply that (and the ever-enigmatic Ohm Force plugs) to invidual Elements…Multi-outs are where it's at, surely.
    #30
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