Nice vid on LUFS

For years I have been going on about the true importance of working with rms values in the music. This video is very good and only reinforces that big time. Even without the LCast loudness meter if you are working with rms values you are right in the very ball park. The difference is only 1dB or less when you are comparing rms and Loudness units anyway.

Notice how he is using Klanghelm VU meters (which I have recommended on many occasions) Notice too how it is set to -10 as the ref level.  Yes the Loudness meter is excellent and of course gives you even more information about the loudness of a track over time etc which is very handy to know. But for someone who is already very versed in working with rms metering it is nothing that new either.

More people should get onto it. VU meters can tell you so much about setting incoming track levels, buss and final buss levels. Like I have always said without them you are shooting in the dark a bit and really the peak level meter is such a useless device and so many people rely on them yet they are not really telling you very much at all other than if you are peaking up into 0dB FS or not which is important of course but you need rms metering as well. Most DAW's are not set up for any form of accurate rms metering but it is easily rectified.

Another important reason why K System metering is so important as you need to decide on a ref level of some sort while you are working on a project all the way through and also for the final ref level in mastering. He chose a slightly weird ref level I think there. His VU's were showing 0 db Vu when the ref level was at -10. Which is pretty hot compared to the K system -12 ref level which is known as broadcast. You can work at a range of ref levels obviously.

I think if you want to create a very analog sounding mix in the digital environment start first by acting in a way as was done back then. All rms metering nice and even all the way in, thru and out. It goes a long way to becoming a nice smooth analog mix at the end of the day. 

For those interested you can get the LCast meter here:

http://www.meterplugs.com/lcast

It is quite expensive and I can see why. It would be a great mastering tool for those interested in professional mastering. But a great VU meter will not cost anywhere near that and can put you right in the ballpark for much less.

http://www.klanghelm.com/VUMT.html

The ballistics of the Klanghelm meter can be adjusted to match a very expensive real VU (which I have) and it is very close.

BTW my system reports that test file correctly as -11.5 dB rms which means my system is set up and reading correctly. Be aware that Sonar reports rms readings incorrectly as -3dB lower than that with its own rms meters. Built in rms meters are not great anyway as they are indicating way too low on the scale. This is easily corrected by using a VU meter plugin such as the Klanghelm with its ref level set accordingly.

This is an important post by the OP. It is getting lost and forgotten about by slightly less important posts.  People need to watch this video it is very interesting and also shows the relevance of rms metering right throughout your signal chain from the very beginning to the very end.

http://youtu.be/31zHqzjRn4c 

Well Beeps you can get any of your meters in Sonar to display rms but for two reasons they are not great. One is they will be reading 3 db too low and the second reason is you are looking at something that is way down the scale and when things are that low on the scale they are simply hard to read.

A good alternative is to invest in a VU meter plugin. Now there was free one mentioned here:

http://sleepytimerecords.com/audioplugins

 
This is the earlier VU meter and is Ok but they have improved this. I will post a link to the newer one soon. I am away from home right now.

I think PSP is giving away a free VU meter plugin too.  
 
http://www.pspaudioware.c...ters/psp_vintagemeter/

You can get the Klanghelm VU meters here as well for a very low price:

http://www.klanghelm.com/VUMT.html

The idea is you select a dbFS reference level and set the meter to show FSD or 0 dB VU when the ref tone is at the chosen ref level. There will often be a mono and stereo version of the same meter so you insert the correct type on the same type of track (or buss) you are metering.

You can use them to set incoming track levels very easily while tracking and as you progress through the project you can just insert them here and there where you need to monitor rms levels at various points in the signal flow.

The LCast meter would be a great thing to have of you were doing a lot of more pro mastering stuff but any decent rms VU meter will do a good job easily. 

Oh... how about Ozone? That's something I've considered for future purchase (if I can ever scrape up some dough again). I'd imagine as a mastering tool it would cover this type of stuff.

Thanks again.

Thanks for the heads up on this.

The Klanghelm meters are only eight euros so they will be in my toolbox for sure.

Not watched the video yet because I'm currently watching the end of the Dubai 24hr race.

Hi Andy, well the first thing you need is some alignment tones. Tones recorded at various levels. eg -20 dB FS, -14 dB FS and perhaps -12 dB FS. (Stereo tracks are handy here too for the alignment tones as it avoids any pan law issues) These are the K System ref levels but you can work at others eg -18 dB FS. I prefer -20 in that case as it is close to -18 anyway and is also used as a ref in other situations. (eg theatre soundtracks etc) These tones can be 400 Hz or say 1 KHz for example. 

Some programs can make these ref tones like Adobe Audition etc.. Not sure about Sonar but if there is a built in oscillator then you will be able to do it too. The main thing is the levels are accurate.

You have to decide what ref level you are going to work at and put the right alignment tone onto a (interleaved) track. Then you playback the test tones and insert a VU meter on that track. You need to let the Klanghelm meters know what the ref level is as well. Check manual for changing the ref level. Once these two things agree then when you playback the ref tone will show the VU meter to be at 0 dB VU and then everything is lined up. 

You can now use the meter for tracking for example. While the input signal is coming in (input echo needs to be turned on or input monitoring engaged) you simply adjust your input gain so the VU is just peaking up to 0 dB most of the time. It may go over here and there but remember you have got all that headroom above the 0dB VU mark so you will rarely clip because most of the time you are well away from 0dB FS.

You can use them on busses as well. Just check that the whole buss signal is also just peaking the VU up to the 0 dB mark most of the time. If it is going over a lot then group all the tracks that are feeding that buss and pull them down accordingly to achieve a nice 0 dB VU reading on your buss. Same with the master buss, the final mix should also just be peaking 0 dB VU. You will find if you get your track and buss levels set nicely, the masterbuss tends to just fall into place VU wise. The whole mix should also just be hitting 0 dB VU for most of the time.

You will rarely clip anything anywhere using VU's because they are keeping you away from the 0 dB FS mark all the time. Also if you mix say 10 tunes and you are using VU meters for all of them you will end up with all your mixes being the same volume. Very handy before any mastering takes place, you have already sorted out one aspect of mastering and that is level matching multiple tracks. Of course you will want to fine tune track levels within an album but this is much easier as well if you have worked with VU's along the way.

Let me know if you are having any issues getting your hands on any alignment tones as I can post them up onto my Soundcloud if need be and make them downloadable so you can download and use them etc..

I've never been a fan of VU meters. Too imprecise. SPAN is all the metering I need. It's always the end of my signal chain, even when I'm using tools with their own metering such as Ozone or Pro-L. Maybe not as scientific as the EBU standard but it's simple, practical and free.

An inexpensive EBU loudnes meter (15 euros) is available here. However, when I demoed it a while back it was a serious CPU cycle sucker.

This interesting related video was linked on the YouTube page from the OP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EIRF7QW0eA

This is Ian Shepherd comparing two versions of Green Day's American Idiot, one of my favorite examples of nasty over-compression. You can now buy a remastered version of this album that's less compressed, which is a great development. I love the album on a musical level, but it's very fatiguing to listen to. I may have to re-purchase it now. 

Let's hope this is the beginning of an industry trend: dynamic remasters of previously-squashed but otherwise great albums. Wouldn't it be great if the more recent Rush albums could get the same treatment! 

I'd love to have that LCAST meter, but even the introductory price of $149 puts it out of my pricerange. 

Jeff Evans

Andy I am away from home but will be back towards the end of the week and I will put up all my test signals again on Soundcloud.

Much appreciated Jeff. And no rush as it will probably be later in the week that I get back onto my DAW (part timers huh!). I am really interested in giving this a go. I've never used a VU meter since the time I had my Teac Tascam Portastudio back in the early eighties LOL.


By the way, in an effort to educate me even further, I need to know what FS stands for. I know FSD = Full Scale Deflection (and that term is used for any gauge no matter what it is measuring). I've done a search on google and drawn a blank for a change.


thanks


andy


Edit : I put BDFS into google instead of DBFS... plonker

I've since found this wiki article:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBFS

Thanks for your patience Jeff. I think I am starting to grasp this, with your words and reading various articles. So thanks again for that.

A very good article to read on Loudness was in Sound on Sound Feb this year. Soon it will be free to download so just keep an eye on it.
 
http://www.soundonsound.c...icles/loudness-war.htm
 
Once this is free to download that article refers to some very cool links which explain the whole Loudness standard. They are also well worth reading too.
 
VU readings and Loudness readings are close but not exactly the same. But working with K system and VU metering will put you right in the ball park.
 
Dynamic Range metering and the Loudness range are also not quite the same thing. I suggest you get into a Dynamic Range Meter such as the TT meter.
 
These days I work with all three now. VU metering during the production. Dynamic Range metering and overall Loudness metering. I think you need to work with all of them at the same time especially in mastering. I like to insert the DR meter before and mastering in order to keep a close eye on the DR of the mastered sound. The DR meter will also tell you if you are squashing your mixes too much. If the reading is a little low you can go back to your mix and ease off some of the compressors that are in key positions in your mix.
 
There is a sweet spot in mastering where you can get decent loudness but at the same time manage a healthy DR reading of say 9 or 10. But once you tip over that though the loudness goes up OK but then the DR reading starts to fall to 8 and below and that is just bad.
 
In CD mastering these days I am aiming for a VU rms average of around -12/-10 db rms now which also results in a healthy DR reading of about 9 or 10 and the LUFS reading also ends up being in that ball park too. It would be nice to master a CD to -23 LUFS too but clients are still a little reluctant to do it. They still want it reasonably loud.
 
When I am producing music or soundtracks for TV though I stick to the recommended -23 LUFS standard though. The TV guys love it. They can just drop it in and the levels are all perfect.
 
The free Orban LUFS meter is also excellent and does a great job and tells you much about the signal you are monitoring.
 
http://www.orban.com/meter/