bitflipper
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No Woman No Cry (cover)
I've written a review of Indiginus' new Renaxxance nylon guitar library for the next issue of SoundBytes that'll be out in about a week. I'll give away the punchline now: it's a really fun library to play in real time. This Bob Marley cover came out of a jam while fiddling with Renaxxance, and I liked the rough improvisation enough to go ahead and flesh it out into a song. This features two other Indiginus libraries as well: Delta Blues Slide Guitar and Acoustic Guitar Collection. Something new I did for this project was to sing into a cheap Sennheiser stage dynamic while playing the nylon guitar part on the keyboard, recording both simultaneously. Despite the lack of acoustic treatment around the mike, it worked out OK because I was singing very close (I had to later filter out a lot of lows from the proximity effect, though; MDynamicEQ to the rescue!). Another thing that made the vocals work was Audio Damage's free RoughRider compressor on the lead. It's an old effect that I've recently re-discovered and will no doubt be using more. Drums are from the TTS-1 (!). Like I said, this started out as an improvised jam. But rather than substituting a proper drum library I decided to see what I could do with the TTS-1. I used MTransient to soften the transients on the snare, and Saturn on the kick to beef up the bottom, delays on tambourine and shaker, and compression on the overheads. It was still a little thin, so I gave in and layered some additional percussion: my favorite epic percussion library Epic Battle, a Kontakt instrument made from water bottles. There's also a smattering of marching-band snare ensembles in there, from SampleLogic's Rumble library. When you think Bob Marley you just automatically think marching band, right? This was also the first time I've used SampleTank3 (bass). I figured I paid a lot of money for it, I might as well use it for something. After auditioning a bunch of ST3's bass patches, I settled on "P Bass Pick Flat-Wound", with no additional processing or editing. I think it sounds pretty OK, although if I was to do it over again I'd probably use my usual favorite, the Orange Tree Rickenbacker as it'd be punchier. This was an unusual project all around, lots of experimentation. A great way to fritter away a Saturday!
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Wookiee
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/07 13:49:52
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You obviously had some fun making this Dave, it sound well here. Thanks for sharing.
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Lynn
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/07 14:01:12
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This has always been one of my favorite Marley songs. I like your arrangement, and I don't think the equipment held you back. I would like the hear the lead vocal a bit louder, but that's just personal preference. Kudos!
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yorolpal
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/07 16:46:27
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Just beautiful Dave, ol pal. And great work with Renaxxance . I'm gonna have to take some time to really learn that one.
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clintmartin
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/07 16:54:11
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It's a very nice tune and a great version of it. I really like the harmonies you have in there (Great job!). The bass and guitars sound very natural to me...I'm always impressed with how good of a job some of you guys do with the outstanding libraries available today.
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Rimshot
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/07 20:12:04
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It's beautiful. I just commented on two other songs on the forum about being a bit bass shy (I seem to hear that a lot) and sometimes a little brittleness on the upper mids. You don't have that here. You got the frequencies so nailed in. It sounds really smooth and is very easy to turn it up and get into the arrangement. Your voice sounds perfect for this song. Love the hook. Nice to hear you Dave. Super job. Jimmy
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Guitarhacker
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/08 08:11:20
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Very nice... I think I have some of those indiginus samples too. I recall picking up the acoustic guitar some time back. Your experiment sounded good. nice play by play on the explanation of what you were doing with the software..... nice sounding slide lead. TTS is a very capable synth in the right hands. I think it gets a bad rap simply because it's bundled free with Cake products and people assume..... free=less than good.... after all, it's free. I've heard some really amazing things produced totally on TTS on these forums through the years by folks who take the time to tweek the sounds. Nice work.
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michaelhanson
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/08 09:06:09
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I actually have never listened to much Marley, so this was new for me. Very well done Bit and thank you for your detailed description's on your processes.....very helpful. I have a new compressor to try out.
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Mesh
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/08 10:16:09
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I'm a big B. Marley fan as I did grow up listening to a lot of "island" music and this version was a real treat. It translated really well on my H-phones.....especially the BV (Melodyne?)......EVERYTHING was done very well. Thanks Dave for sharing!! (giving it a second listen).
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bitflipper
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/08 11:48:38
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Melodyne only touched this once, on the phrase "ooh little sister" where I struggled to reach the highest note and it came out flat. Everything else is as it was sung. However, I did use a favorite technique of mine, which is to layer a choir library over the "ooh". If you sing as many of the ooh harmonies as you can yourself, and just augment and blend them with samples, the result still sounds human.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Venus
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/08 16:38:23
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That was a very nice variation on a classic. I like all your harmonies too. Brings back memories. Sweet. :)
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emeraldsoul
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/09 01:43:06
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Very very smooth background vocals, what a treat to listen to. Enya-like in spots, you work some cool magic with doubling as well (I think?) and I'd push the main vocal up just a tad. I'm interested in your sample library guitar so I will hopefully get to read your review. I am looking at some of the guitar libraries, particularly the Amplesound AGT Taylor. I don't suppose you have an opinion on that one? You are the smoothest Wailer. cheers, -Tom
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bitflipper
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/09 10:02:48
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Thanks to everyone who gave it a listen. Interesting, that's two votes for bringing up the vocal. Interesting because I was afraid it was too loud. But that's how we are when mixing our own vocals, huh? The two most-frequently offered criticisms on this subforum are "turn up/down the bass" and "can't hear the vocal". The former can be chalked up to inadequate monitoring, but the latter can only be explained by nearly everyone's apparent dislike of hearing their own voices. When I mix other people's stuff, I have no problem floating that vocal right on top of everything. Tom, sorry I don't have an opinion on the Amplesound instruments. I had tried their initial product and was disappointed by its heavy CPU usage, although I had no complaints about the sound nor its programmability. And I do like Taylor guitars. The real ones, that is. I'm a fan of Ilya Efimov's guitars, but I don't own them as they're a bit pricey for my limited budget. That's why I like the Indiginus stuff - nothing's over 50 bucks. I've got every one of them except Torch, and I'll probably add that one eventually, too. Check out Tracy's oldest product, the Acoustic Guitar Collection (AGC). It features nine different guitars, including a nice double-tracked 12-string and an easy-to-use strum sequencer, and it's just $40!
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theguitarplayer
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/13 00:28:08
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You see epic can be in any style and genre. In fact, you were epic in putting this song together. Great stuff Dave!! Peace and Blessings, John
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daryl1968
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/13 10:28:42
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very nice Dave - lush layers and the backing vocals are sublime
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bitflipper
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/13 13:36:36
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Thanks, guys! I sent a link to Tracy Collins (Indiginus Instruments) and he's going to post it on his facebook page. Pretty cool, huh? OK, not as cool as having some of my most-respected SONAR friends say they liked it, but still kinda neat to get an attaboy from Tracy. So now I'm thinking about doing an alternate version using only Indiginus instruments, substituting Solid State Symphony for the Kirk Hunter strings and using Brio for percussion. I'm hesitating only because I'd have to ditch my favorite water-bottle percussion library.
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Grem
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/15 20:32:51
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I'd leave it as is Dave. Very good as it stands.
It surprised me that it's the TT1 for the drums.
I really liked the next song, "Going Home." Is that lead guitar samples?
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bitflipper
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/16 10:46:10
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Yes, all the guitars are faked in "Going Home". The middle lead is OTS' EEG Strawberry.
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Grem
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/17 07:41:07
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bitflipper Yes, all the guitars are faked in "Going Home". The middle lead is OTS' EEG Strawberry.
So when you say "faked" I take it you mean some strum VSTi? Or did you play on a keyboard into a VSTi? I like it. Sounds good! Really good!! Good job. [edit] Saw a video on You Tube. I understand now.! [/edit]
post edited by Grem - 2015/05/17 07:52:31
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bitflipper
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/17 10:45:36
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I play all my faux-guitar on a ROMpler, using some generic patch that's similar to the sound I hear in my head. Playing on a hardware synth eliminates latency, facilitates pitch and modwheel articulations in real time and encourages dynamic variation. Then I'll hand-edit the MIDI data to exploit instrument-specific articulations such as hammer-ons, palm mutes, scrapes and such. The biggest limitation of sampled guitars is the lack of variation in tone. I try to address that by putting the emphasis on the performance - and by accumulating a large collection of instruments. EEG Strawberry is my favorite, but for the sake of variety I'll use anything remotely guitar-ish.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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bapu
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/17 11:40:37
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Noice. That's the way to cover a song. Make it your own.
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bitflipper
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/18 09:05:34
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bapu That's the way to cover a song. Make it your own.
Plus few of us here are good enough to do anything BUT make it our own. It comes out like it comes out, and all you can do is say "yep, that's exactly what I intended". I have great admiration for those who have the patience and skill to accurately emulate the original recording. There have been a few postings over the years that were spot-on imitations, and I've heard some amazing live covers (Heart used to kill Beach Boys tunes back in their bar days). I'm too lazy to put that much effort into it.
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Starise
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/18 11:09:49
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Great job on this one Dave! Masterful production. I like the way you sang and played it!
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pwalpwal
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/18 11:16:40
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a bit ot: fyi i went to have a listen but i think soundcloud still use a flash player? i haven't installed flash on my new lappy, and i get no player but no warning neither...
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RogerH
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/18 15:43:46
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Very nice. Good vocals, that deserves a little more volume IMO. Thank's for sharing the song and details of how you recorded it.
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synkrotron
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/19 02:36:19
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Hi Dave, What a great song... Makes me want to check out the original (I never listened to Marley really). If you hadn't have said it was all "faux-guitar" I wouldn't have known. I have both AAS Strum plugs and I hardly use them at all... I just can't get to grips with the articulation and stuff never sounds right. cheers andy
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Larry Jones
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/19 03:18:57
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I'm stunned. Beautiful job! Who needs guitar players, eh?
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bitflipper
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/19 20:31:11
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Well, I for one enjoy playing with a guitarist. And do so most weekends. But my hands are too delicate to ever submit to the necessary practice and callouses required to become a real guitar player myself. I can strum around the campfire, but intricate leads would take me forever to muddle through. However, one must make lemonade with the cards you're dealt, so I adapt.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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emeraldsoul
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/20 00:58:15
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. . . as one must also play the lemons that life gives you. :) Thanks for the indiginus recommendation, I'll check 'em out.
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Grizzlylip
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Re: No Woman No Cry (cover)
2015/05/20 12:09:50
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Excellent work Dave! Im new to the forum, but I am somewhat familiar with your mixing expertise. Maybe you hear this all the time, but I constantly come across your advice when googling various mixing support subjects. You are one with the internet! It's nice to put a sound to the mentor! Ive been a musician for more years than I like to admit, but Im still early into my mixing career. Hearing a track mixed at such a high standard is both enjoyable and a bit discouraging when I go back to my tracks and wonder "so what am I doing wrong?" Typical human being here; I want to produce top shelf audio without having to wait for my skills to develop. If only there was a magic plug-in for such a lack of patience.... Anyhow, I tend to ramble. Great song, great execution, and awesome mixing. Thanks for sharing Dave! Jake
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