Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz

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Mr Blint
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2012/11/17 07:41:17 (permalink)

Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz

[code][/code]I saw on the gearslutz forum a thread where the guy who supports daw bench (and who evidently has a big issue with cakewalk) totally goes off on Noel's claims of improved performance in win 8 and claims just the opposite. Noel, is there any way you can address? I am considering win 8 ( currently at XP)but don't ant to make a mistake. http://www.gearslutz.com/...wbench-results-5.htmlt greet it to work from iPad right now.

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 08:43:12 (permalink)


    Bad link.



    #2
    maximumpower
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 09:08:36 (permalink)
    Once you click on the link, go to the address bar and delete the last 't' in the URL. 

    Win 10 (64 bit), i7-2600k 3.4GHz , 8 GB RAM, SATA III (500GB SSD - System, 2TB WD Black - Data), Sonar Platinum x64, m-audio Profire 610

    #3
    scook
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 09:19:48 (permalink)
    looks like the thread discussed here http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2709918
    #4
    bapu
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 12:39:17 (permalink)
    Loved it.

    UltimateOustider's observation:
    "The difference was still significant- a 21%-44% drop-off in performance on Windows 8."
    #5
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 12:51:19 (permalink)
    good boy


    #6
    Psychobillybob
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 12:58:55 (permalink)
    gearsluts is an opinion marketplace...you buy and sell opinions there...keep that in mind when you read anything there...I've been a member there for a very long time and have known Jules over 10 years...its a business, and a decent one at that, but its the last place I would go to get objective information...

    There are some very knowledgeable people there, but you have to wade through a lot of distracting stuff...

    Think of it as a giant audio opinion swap meet/garage sale...lots of junk and an occasional treasure...

    I'm using SOnar Platinium on a 6 core Lynx Audio machine and a ton of vintage pre-amps/eq's/comps I build for fun and sometimes money, REDD.47/API/Neve I also use the UAD stuff, and also use a Macbook Logic 9 through Apogee...
    #7
    pathos
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 13:06:24 (permalink)
    opinions just like any other forum
    wonder how accurate those tests were.


    #8
    ampfixer
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 13:20:49 (permalink)
    Beware of statistics because they usually say what you want them to.

    Regards, John 
     I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
    WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
    #9
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 13:44:27 (permalink)


    Vin is pretty transparent about his interest in DAW: http://www.aavimt.com.au/

    Dawbench tests are fairly well described and the test templates are made available for anyone to attempt to reproduce, or disapprove of, published results.: http://www.dawbench.com/



    best regards,
    mike


    #10
    rabeach
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 14:41:45 (permalink)
    I don’t know the players but is TAFKAT a disgruntled previous employee of cakewalk? :-)
    #11
    bitflipper
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 15:01:44 (permalink)
    No, but he's a disgruntled former forum member.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #12
    John
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 16:00:38 (permalink)
    I wonder what is the point of his benchmarks? Am I going to junk my DAW of choice for the ability to maybe get another track in a project?

    Also he talks about having dialog with the developers here at CW land, I can't find any posts he was on that directly talked to the developers. 

    Also in the end at best this is one very small area of why one choses a particular DAW or OS. 

    But then I am not into benchmarking. I stopped doing that years ago. It always proved I had an underpowered computer no matter when I did it. But I already knew that.

    Of course he was talking to a Neil so maybe he did. 

    Best
    John
    #13
    Linear Phase
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 16:23:25 (permalink)
    Whatever..  The only community more negative about music technology than gearslutz is kvraudio.   I think I have a 125 posts on gearslutz?   Mostly I just browse, "new product alert, and product alert older than 2 months."

    The rest of it is, "music tech's spoiled little children."

    and btw, I couldn't find the article, you link is broken....

    too many lasers...






    Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!

    #14
    maximumpower
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 17:14:20 (permalink)
    Linear Phase


    ...

    and btw, I couldn't find the article, you link is broken.... 

    After you click on the URL, backspace over the last 't' (in the url) and press enter. That will get you to the article.

    Win 10 (64 bit), i7-2600k 3.4GHz , 8 GB RAM, SATA III (500GB SSD - System, 2TB WD Black - Data), Sonar Platinum x64, m-audio Profire 610

    #15
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 17:26:14 (permalink)
    Benchmarks are very handy for er..... marking benches? Other than that - pretty pointless really.

    I'll stick with how things work for me thanks. I mean do they benchmark screensets? No? Thought not........ 'nuff said.

    #16
    djjhart@aol.com
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 17:56:50 (permalink)
    FastBikerBoy


    Benchmarks are very handy for er..... marking benches? Other than that - pretty pointless really.

    I'll stick with how things work for me thanks. I mean do they benchmark screensets? No? Thought not........ 'nuff said.

    Amen !!! Well said ! Benchmarks mean crap.

    Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD  
    Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.
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    #17
    John
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 18:07:16 (permalink)
    djjhart@aol.com


    FastBikerBoy


    Benchmarks are very handy for er..... marking benches? Other than that - pretty pointless really.

    I'll stick with how things work for me thanks. I mean do they benchmark screensets? No? Thought not........ 'nuff said.

    Amen !!! Well said ! Benchmarks mean crap.


    If I'm not mistaken I said the same thing but with a lot more words. 

    Best
    John
    #18
    djjhart@aol.com
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/17 18:31:34 (permalink)
    John


    djjhart@aol.com


    FastBikerBoy


    Benchmarks are very handy for er..... marking benches? Other than that - pretty pointless really.

    I'll stick with how things work for me thanks. I mean do they benchmark screensets? No? Thought not........ 'nuff said.

    Amen !!! Well said ! Benchmarks mean crap.


    If I'm not mistaken I said the same thing but with a lot more words. 
    Sorry John Amen :) and Hallelujah !!!


    Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD  
    Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.
    Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen  Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved.
     http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks  
     http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313 
     
    #19
    LJB
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 04:38:49 (permalink)
    ampfixer


    Beware of statistics because they usually say what you want them to.




    John, though I understand what you are saying, Stats are actually the ONLY way to manage or analyse anything, provided it's done scientifically. It takes the emotion and sentiment right out of the observation :O)

    Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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    Check out my work at www.onebigroom.co.za

    #20
    pwal
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 06:00:18 (permalink)
    42% of statistics are useless

    list of stuff
    #21
    TEN_K
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 09:10:15 (permalink)
    I'm no good at maths but doesn't that mean.... 58% are useFULL lol. but seriously daw benches are like 3d mark or sisoft sandra scores. They mean very little in the real world. When you get such differences in results with the same specd hardware. a new driver comes out for chipset X and there is like 10-15 % increase in performance KEWL... 1 week later you realise an equivalent decrease in stability . LOL gotta love WIN PC land it's like so wrong that it's right.

    AS LONG AS THEIR IS NO MAC's OR THEIR USERS IN SIGHT I"M HAPPY :P (sorry jay,tris and bec you 3 are the exeption)
    #22
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 09:35:27 (permalink)


    Here's a nice set of benchmarks made by Vin where he discloses that most I/O gear on the market has a differing latency than is reported to your DAW.

    What does this mean? It means that most gear and setups do not actually automatically overdub in synchronization without some manual over ride compensation. Luckily SONAR has the possibility of augmenting the automatic PDC with manual compensation. You just have to know to make use of it. 

    It's the type of cool little detail that used to be discussed here regularly but is rarely mentioned by the current generation of, self mocking, benchmark-phobic, SONAR flag bearers.

    If you think you hear that the playback isn't quite as well timed as the performance... well, there may be a very good reason and a guy like Vin and his penchant for bench marking may be able to explain it.



    http://www.dawbench.com/audio-int-lowlatency2.htm



    http://www.oblique-audio.com/free/rtlutility


    I remember wondering why my music would drift in my *PDC* install of SONAR... and then I learned why and now my music doesn't drift when I build a multi track production.

    I'm glad Vin is still working hard at it... guys like Vin are where the vital info comes from.













    If you want to read the chart below, you have to open the image in another tab or window. It's full of detailed info:






    #23
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 09:57:15 (permalink)
    It's certainly full of something.

    :-)
    #24
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 10:08:21 (permalink)


    You might learn something Karl.

    Don't be afraid of it... 




    I asked about real life total round trip latency on the ZED in another thread here... and not a single person choose to answer.

    It appears, from your response, that you wish to appear as if you do not care about a stat like that.

    I wonder if anyone even knows what the latency on the ZED really is, AND/OR if their DAW actually synchronizes the audio as most end users expect it to be.

    My guess is that if anything that I have just discussed made any sense to you... you'd be off checking your latency instead of attempting to seem humorously dismissive.

    :-)



    best regards,
    mike


    #25
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 11:24:46 (permalink)
    mike_mccue


    You might learn something Karl.

    Don't be afraid of it... 

    I'm always learning have no fear.


    I asked about real life total round trip latency on the ZED in another thread here... and not a single person choose to answer.

    It appears, from your response, that you wish to appear as if you do not care about a stat like that.

    Not only do I appear not to care, but................. brace yourself for the shock........ I actually don't care.

    I bought it, plugged it in, set it up so it works without hassles and use it. I'm far too busy making music and having fun to get bogged down in what is to me a completely meaningless bunch of figures.

    Life's far too short to take it as seriously as you do Mike, if you want some really good advice, chill out a bit and stop trying to convince others (or me at least) that I need to be as uptight as you are. I'm living the dream, making enough money for my needs and having fun along the way.

    One day it'll all be over and I'm pretty sure when my end does come I'm not going to be thinking I wish I'd have spent more time trying to find out if my chosen interface's claimed round trip latency is as accurate as claimed or if they got it wrong by 3 or 4 msecs. Fill your boots if you want but don't expect me to join you.

    I turn it on, I can tell which input is which, and it works. That's plenty enough for me thanks. If it ever stops working I'll either buy another one or change it for something different.

    I wonder if anyone even knows what the latency on the ZED really is, AND/OR if their DAW actually synchronizes the audio as most end users expect it to be.

    I have no idea, neither am I particularly bothered about the latency, it does what I need it to do and that's what I care about. According to the posts of yours that I've read, I seem to be having a much better experience with Sonar than you are so perhaps that's why it doesn't bother me quite so much. Perhaps if I was having your experiences I would be a little more concerned, or more likely considering another DAW and/or interface. I certainly wouldn't be posting the same old over and over for years.

    I can report however that it most definitely does synchronize audio perfectly well. Wouldn't be much of an audio interface if it didn't would it?

    My guess is that if anything that I have just discussed made any sense to you... you'd be off checking your latency instead of attempting to seem humorously dismissive.

    Nope........ see above for details. Even if I did run off and check and then post it back here I've seen enough from you to know that you will poo poo almost anything I'm likeliest to post and dismiss it as lies. We've been there with track count in the TV remember? I think that says far more about you than it does me.

    My advice to you Mike is to chill out and have a little fun, life ain't no dress rehearsal - live life, don't waste it getting hung up on stuff that really isn't as important as you like to think it is.


    #26
    Razorwit
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 12:07:25 (permalink)

    Hi Mike,
    So I'm a bit hesitant to comment here because I don't want to wade into disagreements, but I did at least want to say thanks for the link. I'm kinda hung over today and had nothing better to do so I followed the link, calculated my RTL for my Lynx gear and found that the HW reported value was off by 1 sample at 48khz, or 2.08e-5 seconds (.0208ms). 

    To Karls point, that's a hugely meaningless correction in practical terms, but it was kinda some good nerdy fun.

    Now I'll just wait for the inevitable comment along the lines of "dude, that's like 21 microseconds. I'm a drummer. I could totally have heard that."





    Dean

    Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
    #27
    rabeach
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 12:15:49 (permalink)
    I'm living the dream, making enough money for my needs and having fun along the way. One day it'll all be over and I'm pretty sure when my end does come I'm not going to be thinking I wish I'd have spent more time trying to find out if my chosen interface's claimed round trip latency is as accurate as claimed or if they got it wrong by 3 or 4 msecs.



    :-)
    #28
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 12:21:56 (permalink)
    rabeach



    I'm living the dream, making enough money for my needs and having fun along the way. One day it'll all be over and I'm pretty sure when my end does come I'm not going to be thinking I wish I'd have spent more time trying to find out if my chosen interface's claimed round trip latency is as accurate as claimed or if they got it wrong by 3 or 4 msecs.



    :-)


    Knowing my luck that'll be the question that I have to know the answer to to gain entry to some musical nirvana after life.
    #29
    Razorwit
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    Re:Noel's win 8 article slam on gearslutz 2012/11/18 12:46:35 (permalink)

    Only if you're being judged by The Count from Sesame Street Karl.

    "THREE millisecod of round trip latency! FOUR milliseconds of round trip latency! AH HA HA HA HA!!!"

    Dean

    Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
    #30
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