Noise in condenser mics

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jimmyman
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2009/09/25 15:30:18 (permalink)

Noise in condenser mics


   I had tried the hardware forum looking for answers and I
sure do appreciate the help. I have searched the net looking
for some explanation but all in vain.

   I went to do some vocs one day and the condenser mic
had this (sounds like white/pink) self induced noise. Its level
is so high that it's as loud as the level of the voc (output).
this was using the "CAD gxl2200". I'm thinking oh no!
Not a bad preamp?

  This was an "art pro channel". I switched the mic straight
to the interface and turned on phantom power. Same thing!
Switched to a "MPA gold pre" still same thing. Changed mic
to a "MXL v65".  Same thing. Changed mic to a
"CAD GXL 1200". Yep still the noise.

  Changed mic to a "Studio "Projects C1". No Noise!
  Changed mic to a " MXL 990"  No Noise!

  So 3 out of 5 mics have this very high level white/pink
noise. So I researched. O.K maybe its moister? I tried
placing the "CAD GXL 2200" next to a light bulb for about
2 hours (nothing changed).

  I don't see how 3 mics could all go bad at the same time
especially even not having even been used. I could do
some test on the mics since I can do some electronic type
trouble shooting. But I have no clue on anything "tech"
to go by.

  Surely someone knows whats going on but I haven't
found them yet. Any help?


   
#1

11 Replies Related Threads

    Dave King
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/25 15:35:31 (permalink)
    I don''t know if this is relevant or not, but I had a noise problem my CAD E-100 a while back.  I contacted them about it.  Turns out the noise was present because the mic had not been used in a very long time and the internal battery needed to be more fully charged.  I left the mic plugged into my preamp overnight and this fixed the problem.

    Dave King
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    #2
    batsbrew
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/25 15:36:44 (permalink)
    just a guess...

    bad phantom power fried half your mics?

    and what's a moister?

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    batsbrew
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/25 15:37:26 (permalink)
    don't forget to check cables as well....
    long shot, but more than once i've trouble-shot issues, only to find out it was
    the G'Dam cable!!

    LOL

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    #4
    jimmyman
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/25 16:06:41 (permalink)

      Dave
    "I don''t know if this is relevant or not, but I had a noise problem my CAD E-100 a while back.  I contacted them about it.  Turns out the noise was present because the mic had not been used in a very long time and the internal battery needed to be more fully charged.  I left the mic plugged into my preamp overnight and this fixed the problem."
      ...........................

        Thanks so much for that info.  Even if that isn't my problem I've
    still learned something. I just now turned it on and letting it sit
    to see if anything happens.

       Edit: it seems the "equitech" series uses internal batteries.

       Batsbrew
    "  just a guess...

    bad phantom power fried half your mics?

    and what's a moister? "
    ..............................................

         Bad phantom power?  that's a very good thought to ask.
    but 2 out of 5 mics still work. I wont get out my other
    condenser mics to check until I can find/make some sense
    of this so far.

      what's a Moister? I don't know? Maybe an alien? spell
    check brought up that correction as a word. should it
    have been moisture? meaning damp?

      thanks for the reply.
      
       edit: yea I tried different cables  after reading your
    mention of that but no that aint it.
      
    post edited by jimmyman - 2009/09/25 16:24:41
    #5
    bitflipper
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/25 19:15:10 (permalink)
    If the phantom voltage were low or very noisy, that could account for the noise -- some mics might deal with dirty phantom power better than others. However, I think you can eliminate phantom power as the culprit because when you bypassed the preamp and went straight into the interface your phantom power source also changed.

    The mic cable would be my #1 suspect, the first thing to test.

    Second suspect would be some external RF noise source, then the interface itself.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #6
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/25 20:17:07 (permalink)
    Old capacitors?




    #7
    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/25 20:55:09 (permalink)
    Behringer make a great little cable tester. (CT 100) In fact it is something you all should own. It is a must. It does not cost much and tests all cables for wiring etc. It also has a wiggle test where you plug your cables in and wiggle the ends while observing the LED's.  A multimeter will not show a tiny break (for a very short time)  in a cable it may show it still in continuity. But the Behringer will detect if a cable break ocurrs for even for a very very short amount of time.  Many cables when first plugged in pass the wiring test but fail the wiggle test.

    The Behringer also will show if phantom power is working and also has a built in oscillator which can be very useful especially at a live gig. It also displays how cables are wired correctly or incorrectly. This can be an issue especially when cannon to jack cables are wired. (there are two ways of wiring this balanced to unbalanced connection, one is more correct than the other)

    Most people can't solder to save themselves and if you have made cables yourself you really need something like this to test them before using them. At a live gig I test every cannon to cannon cable before I even setup. Usually I find at least 10 to 20% are faulty! (I have mine with me of course just in case)

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    #8
    jimmyman
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/25 22:03:03 (permalink)

      Mike
        Old caps? Yea that would have been my first suspect too.
    like when the tube amps do the boiling water sound. I took
    the mics apart. They have the standard Mylar and
    electrolitick caps. No paper caps.

      So these mics arent any vintage gems at all. I wish
    I had schematics on them like a tube amp so I could do
    some testing.
    #9
    jimmyman
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/25 22:28:04 (permalink)

      Bitfiliper

       thank you so much for the input but ive tried all you mention.
    Ive got an old pre with a 24volt phantam power. dont use it
    but I like understanding and knowing. Learning is cool too.
    #10
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/26 08:43:24 (permalink)
    It's a long shot Jimmy, but it's possible it's the caps. I would only suggest that as a possibility if the mics were used infrequently and not "powered" up often enough to keep the electrolytic caps well formed.

    There is also the possibility that the caps used when the mics were constructed were already old stock even though they may have been brand new stock. Electrolytic caps don't last as long in storage as they do in use. It's hard to imagine that all the mics have the same problem.

    The idea that your phantom power may not be adequate is definitely something I'd look at. Phantom power isn't really considered a priority in prosumer gear and it's usually underpowered and not filtered as well as it can be.

    Keep trying the mics on other gear.

    Also, and I'm sure you've checked this, but the connectors can easily be dirty from corrosion, I try to eliminate things like connectors and cables from the diagnosis as early as possible.

    Good Luck.

    best,
    mike
    post edited by mike_mccue - 2009/09/26 08:45:55


    #11
    jimmyman
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    Re:Noise in condenser mics 2009/09/26 11:57:36 (permalink)

      I want to thank you all so very much for your input.
    I have read all your remarks over and over seeing if some
    kind of "something I'm missing" might click in my mind.

      Bitflipper.

    of course you know I'm a thinker and hopefully
    my brain won't explode. I've been electrician all my life
    and have troubleshooted thousands of electrical/electronic
    problems.

     Very often I have to use this "why does this happen"
    "what made it happen" mindset. It bugs me to no end to
    not know "why".

      I'm glad you mention how different mics behave differently
    to a given situation (or phantom power). 3 different
    pres and different phantom powers are all doing the
    same thing. And 3 different mics are too.
     
    Mike.

      The caps subject really has my attention. They went from
    noise to a bit more crackling sounds as I hooked up the
    mics and let them sit. "leaky caps?" But until I have some
    sort of a "narrowed down to this" thing I'm still stuck.

       I haven't yet but I guess it's time to get out the
    digital multi meter and see if I can at least find something.
    Had this been only one mic or one pre I would have
    done that first.

      Jeff

      I really do need to get a tester like you mention just
    because I do need one. The meters "aren't fast enough"
    subject is "sort of" true. An analog meter of course is
    slower but given a certain situation they are better
    suited for "a given situation"

      digital meters of course are faster and some faster
    than others. Could a digital meter do what this tester
    can do? yes (if it's fast enough).

     So your point is valid and well taken and I am going to
    get one of those so thanks again for the mention.
    I just wanted to point out that all meters are not
    created equal. 

      thank you all again and hopefully I can come back
    with some explanation after I do some testing.
    I just thought surely someone would know
    "the problem is such and such" and "this is why"

      Its like my older brother for example he's a great
    auto mechanic. I drove to his garage one day.
    he was standing outside the garage as I drove up.
    I pulled up and stopped/ turn off the engine.

      Before I said a word he said "you've got a cracked
    distributor cap"  I said "how did you know that?
    He said "because the way the engine runs"
    I opened the hood/ pulled off the distributor cap
    and "that was it!"  

      So I just thought maybe someone could narrow
    "my situation" a bit from experience.

       thanks everyone
    #12
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