Noisy TH3

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yellowcake64
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2017/11/17 20:59:56 (permalink)

Noisy TH3

Hi all

Sorry if this isn’t the right forum, but it’s about TH3.

I purchased the full version after buying Platinum. I like it but the high gain patches are REALLY noisy; actually excessively so. I’m relatively inexperienced with amp sims, but apart from the obvious (shoving a gate in), have any of you had similar problems and managed to improve things? Thanks.

Dave

Yellowcake
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    TheSteven
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/17 21:14:36 (permalink)
    Does your guitar have unshielded single coil pickups?
    If so the pickups are picking up noise from your computer.

    "Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz

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    #2
    yellowcake64
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/17 21:19:55 (permalink)
    Hmm. Not sure. It’s an old Washburn Chicago KC90. Two single coil; single humbucker with coil tap. Seymour Duncans. If this is the problem, what can be done?

    Yellowcake
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    #3
    TheSteven
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/17 21:21:38 (permalink)
    I have problems with my strat clone due to that issue.
    I have to angle my guitar just right or the noise is overwhelming.

    "Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz

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    #4
    yellowcake64
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/17 21:24:01 (permalink)
    That’s the right word ‘overwhelming’. I’d go so far as to say unusable. Not sure where I can go with this.

    Yellowcake
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    dnelson1971
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/17 21:26:14 (permalink)
    I haven't used TH3 yet but this problem exists for all amp sims. When you pump up the gain you are boosting the input signal along with all of the noise that is present in that signal. Things like USB cables, guitar cables, hot pickups, interference from computer monitors, WiFi antennas, bluetooth antennas, noisy interface preamps, etc. all add to this noise floor and are amplified right along with the sound of the guitar. You can try things like moving your interface as far from the computer as possible, turn off bluetooth and WiFi if it's a laptop, experiment with different pickup configurations if you have a switch but you will still may need to add a gate to the beginning of the plugin chain. The thing that made the biggest difference for me was a new interface.
    #6
    TheSteven
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/17 21:26:40 (permalink)
    Does your pickup selector have a hum canceling switch setting?
    - If it has a setting that uses both single coils check that out - some guitars wire them out of phase so that they act like a humbucker when combined.
     
    Also try changing what angle your guitar faces the computer and see if there's a sweet spot that is quieter.

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    tlw
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/17 21:47:17 (permalink)
    The problem occurs with amps and pedals as well as sims.

    If you use a lot of gain/compression that boosts the noise coming from the guitar itself and any pedals before the gain is added.

    Gates are a last resort fix that’s rarely satisfactory, and they always affect both the attack and sustain of the guitar.

    Humbucker-equipped quitars shouldn’t be as noisy as single coils, but even a well shielded guitar with good humbuckers will still pick up some electrical buzz from sourounding stuff. Guitar leads also pick up noise and can act as ariels, especially with some pedals such as simple fuzz circuits. Computers put out a lot of electrical noise as radio which guitars pick up and send to the amp. Changing the angle between guitar and computer/monitor can sometimes make for a big decrease (or increase) in the noise picked up by the pickups.

    Paying attention to gain staging can go a long way towards minimising noise. E.g. running a distortion pedal that boosts the signal a lot and creates noise itself into another similar pedal, compressor or a high-gain amp is a recipe for a lot of noise. For minimal noise, pedals that generate noise are best used into cleaner amps that boost the noise floor less than a high gain amp channel. The ideal is to get the noise floor as low as possible by better gain staging and then consider gating as a last resort. A gate that only affects certain frequency bands, such as a couple of Bozdigital’s, can be useful on guitar and be much less obtrusive than a full-frequency gate.

    It does have to be said that some amp sims are very noisy themselves, maybe even noisier than the amp they are trying to emulate. Same with some effects emulations, which start with over the top settings and noise levels. The Amplitube Big Muff being an example of one.

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    yellowcake64
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/17 23:22:29 (permalink)
    Thanks for the insightful suggestions. Going to be a bit of trial and error I guess. I have found an ‘angle’ where the noise seems at a minimum so that’s a good starting point.

    Dave

    Yellowcake
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    Thedoccal
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/17 23:43:44 (permalink)
    Put the Expander/Gate module in the Pro Channel Rack.
    Do it RIGHT NOW!
    I had the exact same problem with Amplitube.
    The Expander/Gate module was INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!
    Problem GONE!!!!!!!

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    #10
    lapasoa
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/18 08:30:14 (permalink)
    I'm wearing my Swatch watch on my right wrist.
    When I record my single coil Stratocaster I hear an audible tic tac tic tac tic tac.
    So I have to lift myself off the clock.
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    Lynn
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/18 16:06:12 (permalink)
    TH3 has a very nice gate that will cut out hum quite well.  A real amp is much more difficult to control than TH3.  Set the gate so that it's quiet between notes but will stay open during sustained notes.  Thedoccal's advice is good, too, and you may prefer to use both gates.  Hope this helps.

    All the best,
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    rsinger
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/18 17:51:24 (permalink)
    yellowcake64
    I like it but the high gain patches are REALLY noisy; actually excessively so. I’m relatively inexperienced with amp sims, but apart from the obvious (shoving a gate in), have any of you had similar problems and managed to improve things?



    Since you say you are relatively inexperienced with amp sims - once you get the excessive noise problem fixed, high gain settings often require removing some high freq bands. Take an eq with a notch (high q) attenuating a narrow band and sweep between 1k and 10k. Once you find a problem you can play with the q and level. It's not unusual to need to remove a couple bands. If you use quad curve try the hybrid setting.

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    #13
    Lynn
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/18 18:29:23 (permalink)
    A low pass filter with a cutoff between 4 to 5k (you can experiment) often can tame unwanted frequencies, too.

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    gswitz
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/18 19:36:20 (permalink)
    To reduce noise from a guitar,
    - when guitar has only one volume nob, turn it to eleven and leave it there.
    - when a guitar has 2 volume nobs, adjust so at least one of the two is on eleven and the other adjusted relatively for tone.

    StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
    I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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    sharke
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/19 01:19:22 (permalink)
    I swear amp sims make this buzz worse though. My Telecaster buzzes far more loudly when plugged into an amp sim than it does plugged into a real amp with similar settings, even with my guitar in exactly the same position. I just presumed it was one of these stupid attempts by developers to make plugins sound more "real" by adding noise, and that they add too much. I cannot use higher gain amp sim presets unless I rotate my guitar into just the right position, which annoyingly enough happens to be facing away from my DAW with the body tilted down to the floor about 30 degrees. I literally have to play like that lol. 

    James
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    Kamikaze
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/19 03:45:41 (permalink)
    Could that be a result of your guitar being closer to the computer when you are using a sim Sharke. Have you tried moving around when the sim is being noisy

     
    #17
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/19 15:34:49 (permalink)
    Its not always guitars in particular, though I know what 60 cycle hum sounds like coming from a strat.
    Most of my good starts I modded with grounding shield (copper paint/copper tape).
    More often than not its the Amp sim itself and its only using high gain amps and/or associated with gain pedals in general.
    When im using high gain Amp sim models I always use a gate. most have them built in to the amp sim for this reason alone.

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    tlw
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/19 16:14:19 (permalink)
    Kamikaze
    Could that be a result of your guitar being closer to the computer when you are using a sim Sharke. Have you tried moving around when the sim is being noisy


    I find the same as Sharke. And my stool is in the same place whether I'm using an amp and pedals or going direct into the computer.

    I suspect much of the sim noise is the result of the sims, and even more the manufacturer's presets, generally being programmed to produce a lot of distortion in the hope that will sound more "awesome" when not in the context of a mix. I've come across people on forums who have only used sims then finally got a real JCM or Mesa who complain their amp is broken because it doesn't have the "killer distortion" of the emulator's version of that amp.

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    tlw
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/19 16:14:25 (permalink)
    Double post courtesy of the laggy forum software, ignore.

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    rsinger
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/19 17:42:14 (permalink)
    tlw
    ... and even more the manufacturer's presets, generally being programmed to produce a lot of distortion in the hope that will sound more "awesome" when not in the context of a mix. I've come across people on forums who have only used sims then finally got a real JCM or Mesa who complain their amp is broken because it doesn't have the "killer distortion" of the emulator's version of that amp.



    Not only sims, but HW fx processors as well. I get the impression that I'm the only non-metal head that buys guitar fx and sims 
     
    Recently I was watching some videos of the Mooer ge200 and most of them are metal. That's suppose to showcase a good amp sim?

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    chuckebaby
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    Re: Noisy TH3 2017/11/20 13:36:53 (permalink)
    tlw
    I've come across people on forums who have only used sims then finally got a real JCM or Mesa who complain their amp is broken because it doesn't have the "killer distortion" of the emulator's version of that amp.



    Most of those people have what is called a bad ear, tainted by the use of Amp Sims.
    But seriously though, I don't know anyone who owns a JCM, Plexi or Mesa Boogie that prefers Amp Sims over the real McCoy (unless its necessary for late night recording, scratch track ideas).
     
    Amp Sims have come miles in just the past 3 years alone. But they can not and never will be better than the real thing. I own many amps, microphones and speakers (for different head/cab combinations) and I have yet to find an amp sim that replicated the sound of tube break up like a real JCM800. Positive Grid Bias comes pretty darn close but just like sampled drums, I will always take the real thing over a modeled amp.

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