sleeper
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Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
The Scenario: So, I'm first and foremost a songwriter, then a musician and NOT an engineer (but I'm learning). And that is typically how I have used Sonar (just to get my song ideas down and create VERY rough mixes). But now that I have X2 (and a bit more time) I'm trying to really dig into the engineering side (i.e. Books, Tutorials, etc.). I've just completed a quick video tuturial on EQ and Filters and now (that I know what to listen for) I'm looking to clean up a Vocal Track (to practice what I've learned). The Instructor spoke glowingly of the use of Parametric EQ's and now I want to try my hand. The Question(s): - Given the above scenario (Total Noob) which EQ's are best for Vocals?
- Which EQ(s) in Sonar X2 Producer is a Parametric EQ?
Hope this makes sense, SLEEPER
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scook
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/27 21:28:56
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You can get a lot of mileage out of the QuadCurve EQ in the ProChannel, it is not just for vocals though. You may find the video "X2 QuadCurve EQ" on this page http://www.cakewalk.com/C...ONARU.aspx/Get-Started useful.
post edited by scook - 2013/04/27 21:41:54
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John
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/27 21:41:36
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Nearly all the EQs in Sonar are parametric.
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sleeper
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/27 22:02:03
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Thanks Guys
@skook: Diving into the Cake TV Training to understand the QuadCurve EQ.
@John: Thanks. I guess I will take a deeper dive into the manual to find the ones that are NOT parametric.
Thanks Again!
SLEEPER
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konradh
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/27 22:59:43
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A parametric EQ is one that allows you to control three parameters: the frequency to boost or cut, the amount to boost or cut, and the band width (Q) of the boost or cut. The band width means how the wide the area is that is affected by the boost or cut. The ProChannel EQ is parametric and should do almost anything you need.
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Jeff M.
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/27 23:42:25
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Pick up the free http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/ add it to an FX Chain module in the track/bus Pro Channel *after the EQ* and you'll be able to see the effects of what you're EQing. Very handy. Also, the Sonitus:fx EQ is another one to play around with. Holding down the shift key will lock in the freq & gain of that node and mouse-dragging side-to-side will adjust the Q. Play around with the different filter types - low/high pass, low/high shelf, peak/dip. Generally, to locate offending frequencies, increase or decrease the gain all the way up/down & sweep back & forth till you hear the oddball frequency, then adjust the gain & Q. SPAN will help you spot weird looking areas to check.
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UltimateMusicSnob
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/28 00:32:36
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If you have the time, I'd try everything you've got on a vocal track, one after another. Human voices have tremendous variety, and different voices will benefit differently from different EQ tools and settings. Check out all the presets labeled for voice, try tweaking some of the parameters on the device, see if you can improve on them. I have a Pultec EQ emulator from UAD that has a weird concept, to my mind, but it's VERY effective in a lot of situations.
All that said, I really like Sonar's Prochannel EQ controls. Once you get close to what you want, mess with the Q ***a lot***, until you get the least change that gives you the result you want.
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AT
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/28 00:46:48
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Best? Maybe the RND hardware parametric EQ.
In SONAR? ProChannel EQ is pretty darn good and should work on most things, including vox. Get a handle on Filters, first. Low and High Pass. they, well, filter out the frequencies above/below the cut off point. The main use for vocals would be clearing out the noise in the lower end of the spectrum. Such noise eats up a lot of headroom and filtering it doesn't effect the voice. Try it. Raise the high pass cut off point until you hear an effect on the vocal and see how high you go. PC has a slope control, too, which is nice.
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Freddie H
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/28 06:05:45
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sleeper
The Scenario:
So, I'm first and foremost a songwriter, then a musician and NOT an engineer (but I'm learning). And that is typically how I have used Sonar (just to get my song ideas down and create VERY rough mixes).
But now that I have X2 (and a bit more time) I'm trying to really dig into the engineering side (i.e. Books, Tutorials, etc.).
I've just completed a quick video tuturial on EQ and Filters and now (that I know what to listen for) I'm looking to clean up a Vocal Track (to practice what I've learned). The Instructor spoke glowingly of the use of Parametric EQ's and now I want to try my hand.
The Question(s):
- Given the above scenario (Total Noob) which EQ's are best for Vocals?
- Which EQ(s) in Sonar X2 Producer is a Parametric EQ?
Hope this makes sense,
SLEEPER
SONAR X2 Pro Channel G-Type great on vocals and are my favorite to go EQ.
If you ask producers and mixing engineers around the world 8-of 10 would probably say SSL G Channels is the best SSL sounding EQ. SONAR Pro Channel G-Type is a mimic of SSL G-Channel EQ but with more flexible Q options in the filter zone then the original hardware found example on SSL Duality SE mixing board. The sound of PC-EQ are just awesome. The SONAR Pro Channel E-channel is good too and are a SSL-E series replica. On the hardware mixing console you can switch between G-Channel or E-Channel on each channel. E-Type EQ are more kind of ROCK Sound EQ and the G-Type are more POP sound of EQ. More open sound in the higher bands. http://www.solidstatelogic.com/music/duality/ 
post edited by Freddie H - 2013/04/28 06:40:54
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Pragi
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/28 06:59:01
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Hi, sorry for a question off topic, but : Are you sure, that you recording- chain is as good as possible for your needs? I´m asking cause the better your recording chain is ( with a good mics and preamp) less you will need to edit it with compressor ,eq , aso. have fun Pragi
post edited by Pragi - 2013/04/28 07:18:43
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markyzno
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/28 08:46:57
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Rmix is quite good at killing unwanted artifacts on Vocal tracks etc.
But, I find something like Ozone 5 better than Pro Channel in "cleaning" things up.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/28 08:52:14
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How the track/vocal is recorded is very important.
A poorly recorded vocal can be nearly impossible to get sounding right, no matter how much EQ and compression would be used in the attempt to fix it.
On the other hand, a well recorded vocal track would need almost no EQ to make it stellar.
A quality condensor mic, and good recording technique go a long way toward that result.
Which EQ to use? That ends up being a personal choice resulting from knowing what to listen for, and trying as many of the EQ's that you have available to you to see which one you like best.
In my experience, I have certain EQ's that I like on voice, different ones on drums and bass, and yet another on acoustic guitar. By playing around and experimenting, I have come to these conclusions and they seem to work for me. Another person upon hearing my selections for a specific instrument or vocal would disagree and likely have a totally different stable of EQ to use.
Do not overlook the simple EQ and compression that comes in the cake default FX list.
As a side note, reverb has not been mentioned but I use the Cakewalk Studioverb 2 almost exclusively even though I have quite a few others. I just like that way it sounds.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/28 10:25:10
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There is no "Best EQ for vocals or any other instrument you can record and mix. Its all about personnel preference and what you need to make the sound you want. The best thing for you to do is to learn all about EQ's. 1. The 3 different types of EQ's 2. The 6 different types of filters in EQ'a 3. The "Q Setting and how it effects the filters and frequencys The linear phase option and the different type of latency that the linear phase can have. How that latency effects the audio signal. Here are some things I wrote about the above list I stated - http://www.audio-mastering-mixing.com/faq---q-a.html#23 Here are some tips on hoe to record and get a good vocal track. - http://www.audio-mastering-mixing.com/faq---q-a.html#24 CJ
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Jay Tee 4303
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/28 15:10:39
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After you've multed, tuned and color coordinated your vocal track(s), found a static fader mix that works, and comped or automated any unstable faders,
any EQ you understand and can groove on the interface with will unblock your remaining frequency overlaps. If you want to sweeten from there...pick one and tweak it till it works for you.
Keep your eye out for comb filtering artifacts or use an EQ that doesn't phase shift your signal.
(Thanks Mike!)
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/28 23:53:51
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At the level you are at, don't even BOTHER trying to get the best 'sounding' eq or anything like that. Complete waste of time. Look at a few of the eqs available in SONAR and see which you find makes most sense and is easiest for YOU to use.
Sonitus is very nice and easy to use. There is nothing wrong with it. The quad curve is good too, though you may find the controls a little more confusing as it's trying to be compact.
I'd suggest just using Sonitus for now as it has a nice graphic display showing you an idea of everything that's happening. I think it's a little more user friendly for a beginner. Once you master and fully understand it, all other eqs are really just the same.
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Freddie H
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/29 03:03:59
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mattplaysguitar
At the level you are at, don't even BOTHER trying to get the best 'sounding' eq or anything like that. Complete waste of time. Look at a few of the eqs available in SONAR and see which you find makes most sense and is easiest for YOU to use.
Sonitus is very nice and easy to use. There is nothing wrong with it. The quad curve is good too, though you may find the controls a little more confusing as it's trying to be compact.
I'd suggest just using Sonitus for now as it has a nice graphic display showing you an idea of everything that's happening. I think it's a little more user friendly for a beginner. Once you master and fully understand it, all other eqs are really just the same.
You should always try and urge to do the best you can.  If you talk about get wonderful pro sound it all start what converters and preamps you use. ********About Gear *********** Check your specifications. You want to look for Dynamic Signal to Noise ratio (SNR): This is a good measurement how good your audio card actually sounds. The difference can actually be like someone took of a blanket of your speaker's compared to low range gear. Your audio card or converters dynamic Signal to Noise ratio SNR should be between minimum 115db up to 130db. Signal to Noise ratio (SNR): 118 dB RMS unweighted, 120 dBA UAD Apollo, SSL Alpha Link, Lynx aurora, AVID HD I/O and some of the RME products reach that. As you can see if you check, most common low range products reach up to 102-108db... (No names) You get what you pay for. Preamps & Compressor. That is one of the biggest myth out there. Of course there are some really nice preamps compressors but sometimes low range sounds better then expensive unit. In my own opinion "Great River"products is just a joke. I have listen on other products from Great River too and I saying it's nothing special. Don't waste your money there. Products from ART, DBX, FMR, SPL, NEVE, Focusrite, SSL, Manley, Daking, Chandler Limited, Elysia, Drawmer all sounds amazing in their price range. Great River VS ART (ART sounds better for a cost of a fraction) http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/495485-can-you-tell-difference-art-vs-great-river.html
post edited by Freddie H - 2013/04/29 03:14:28
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/29 04:30:14
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Freddie H
mattplaysguitar
At the level you are at, don't even BOTHER trying to get the best 'sounding' eq or anything like that. Complete waste of time. Look at a few of the eqs available in SONAR and see which you find makes most sense and is easiest for YOU to use.
Sonitus is very nice and easy to use. There is nothing wrong with it. The quad curve is good too, though you may find the controls a little more confusing as it's trying to be compact.
I'd suggest just using Sonitus for now as it has a nice graphic display showing you an idea of everything that's happening. I think it's a little more user friendly for a beginner. Once you master and fully understand it, all other eqs are really just the same.
You should always try and urge to do the best you can.
If you talk about get wonderful pro sound it all start what converters and preamps you use.
I agree that you should always strive to have the best that you can afford, but you can't make an informed decision on that until you know what you're doing. You're best using what is free and comes standard in SONAR as it doesn't cost anything and still sounds GREAT. Once you have learnt it well, start to look into other areas. You're wasting your time (any maybe money) otherwise. I really think that in general, most eqs sound pretty damn similar. You have the odd ball like the pultek that just adds something else, but they mostly do the same kind of job. I'm talking about the digital domain of course. Analogue is obviously a different ball-game. There is no point looking hard at what you're doing with eq until you are really getting your skills (and gear) up in the high 95% perfect area where the differences are worth it. Yes there is the cumulative effect of multiple pieces of quality gear, but if you don't select the right one at each stage along the way, you're wasting your time. A beginner should spend 100% of their time learning and mastering the eq process before even CONSIDERING looking at different eqs.
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Freddie H
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/29 07:14:04
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mattplaysguitar
Freddie H
mattplaysguitar
At the level you are at, don't even BOTHER trying to get the best 'sounding' eq or anything like that. Complete waste of time. Look at a few of the eqs available in SONAR and see which you find makes most sense and is easiest for YOU to use.
Sonitus is very nice and easy to use. There is nothing wrong with it. The quad curve is good too, though you may find the controls a little more confusing as it's trying to be compact.
I'd suggest just using Sonitus for now as it has a nice graphic display showing you an idea of everything that's happening. I think it's a little more user friendly for a beginner. Once you master and fully understand it, all other eqs are really just the same.
You should always try and urge to do the best you can.
If you talk about get wonderful pro sound it all start what converters and preamps you use.
I agree that you should always strive to have the best that you can afford, but you can't make an informed decision on that until you know what you're doing. You're best using what is free and comes standard in SONAR as it doesn't cost anything and still sounds GREAT. Once you have learnt it well, start to look into other areas. You're wasting your time (any maybe money) otherwise.
I really think that in general, most eqs sound pretty damn similar. You have the odd ball like the pultek that just adds something else, but they mostly do the same kind of job. I'm talking about the digital domain of course. Analogue is obviously a different ball-game. There is no point looking hard at what you're doing with eq until you are really getting your skills (and gear) up in the high 95% perfect area where the differences are worth it. Yes there is the cumulative effect of multiple pieces of quality gear, but if you don't select the right one at each stage along the way, you're wasting your time.
A beginner should spend 100% of their time learning and mastering the eq process before even CONSIDERING looking at different eqs.
Agree Matt! +1 I think that are more software's EQs then just Pultec that give your color ITB. Many software EQ's are superior the analogs at least as good. Best Regards Freddie
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/29 09:02:09
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If you haven't seen it already, you might find this article interesting, Freddie: http://rhythminmind.net/1313/?p=361 I'm very confident with EQs but I'm still yet to fully get most of the hype over different eqs. Pultek is just one example that I have come across where I really notice the difference. But in Sonar, I remember once taking the time to compare the stock FX EQ Cake thing to Sonitus to Quad Curve to LP64. I really think I could hear the difference. The cake one sounded the worst, but not by that much really. Sonitus was very neutral sounding. Quad curve somehow sounded ever so slightly more 'musical' (whatever that means) and it just seemed to have a bit of a smooth fit-ing-in type sound. LP64 sounded very surgical and precise yet stale and cold. I guess if I used the term color, I would say that the quad curve had the most, but so marginal. In practise, I'd typically just use the quad curve because it's easiest as it's in the pro chan. Simple as that. I do love the pultek sound on bass though, but I wonder if that's just a low freq saturation thing. Don't know, but it sounds great either way! So in general, I really don't get the hype... But I understand that there are differences. I guess once you fully learn those differences, you tend to 'hype' it up more that it really deserves. That's the way we like to work in this field ;) Sorry to hijack the thread...
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/29 09:05:35
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Oh, and just to clarify, I was talking about the free Pultec 'clones' that are out there (yeah, yeah I know, but I like the sound!). I've not yet had the fortune of playing with some nice analogue eqs. A pultec build is DEFINITELY on my list at some stage in the future! And maybe a nice LA2A as well :)
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UltimateMusicSnob
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/29 11:43:45
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The choice of EQ tools is more down to the task being addressed, than to whether one is EQ-ing vocals, or guitars, or trumpets, etc.
The two main tasks I come across are fitting the track into the mix, and solving particular freq problems.
For fitting into the mix, you need a tool with High Pass and Low Pass filtering for sure. Even then, a good arrangement practically solves its own EQ problems ahead of time. If someone arranged a vocal with 3 rhythm guitars in exactly the same freq band, then they have an advanced problem to solve using not just EQ, but also Pan, Reverb, faders, Compression (probably sidechain compression)-- and big arguments with the guitarists when they hear the mix.
For particular freq problems, you need a tool with a good Q control. For example, I had a room resonance problem which took over a track at one particular freq. That's findable with a narrow Q and frequency sweeps, and you can fix it (sort of) without destroying the track.
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bitflipper
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/29 14:21:13
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A beginner should spend 100% of their time learning and mastering the eq process before even CONSIDERING looking at different eqs. The best piece of advice offered in this thread so far.
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Dude Ivey
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Re:Noob Question: Which EQ's best for Vocals?
2013/04/29 22:25:59
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bitflipper
A beginner should spend 100% of their time learning and mastering the eq process before even CONSIDERING looking at different eqs.
The best piece of advice offered in this thread so far.
I agree with this totally. Learn to use an EQ. It's the most valuable tool in any DAW. I do like to have an analyzer built in to the EQ. I use the DMG Equilibrium EQ and i use it on everything. But right now, just pick an EQ that u have and learn to use it.
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