Not Just Microsoft, Now Propellerheads Doing the SONAR Thang...

At Summer NAMM today in Nashville there were some great presentations by Microsoft about Windows 10 and audio. There are some major changes, with an emphasis on low-latency operation, greater MIDI integration, and including FLAC and ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) within Windows. It was very encouraging. They also showed that the audio optimizations in Windows 10 were cutting latency about in half compared to Windows 7, and that's without drivers optimized for the other tech changes.
 
What was even more interesting was that Microsoft plans to roll out features when they're ready, on a regular basis. Where have I heard that before?  They gave all the same reasons: manageable feature updates, easier QC, no long waits between big updates, etc.
 
Then I had a long chat with a representative from Propellerheads. They too are eschewing the "big" release with big time intervals between them. They are planning on approximately quarterly point releases, and incrementing the version number every year or two (which would at that point trigger an update cost). Again, although the model is somewhat different from Cakewalk the reasons for doing it are very similar. This representative was impressed that Cakewalk has pulled off a regular, monthly SONAR release schedule with a significant volume of features, fixes, and content in each release. 
 
If we're lucky, the Adobe model is going to be seen as antiquated before too long. It looks like the software industry is coming to terms with the volatile nature of software design caused by changes in hardware and operating systems, and devising new models to deal with it. Congrats to the Bakers for their contribution.
 
[Yes, I know the "hey, let's rain on the parade!" people will now show up. But before they do, I just wanted to get across how those in the industry who know about the challenges of software development view Cakewalk. It was cool to hear a Microsoft rep high up on the food chain name-check Noel .]

What I read though these latency changes are for WDM, and ASIO would still be 'the best experience for DAWs'... So I wonder if it will make much difference. Of course core changes within windows will help and MIDI improvements sound good..

Btw regular release cycles have been around for ages with open source software, who get direct feedback from their forums, and everybody seems to be learning from it.

M$ should have been impressed btw it is pretty impressive.

jpetersen
So can I not ever get a DVD version to buy anymore?

No Cakewalk products released this year have physical media

You can still download it to a USB key.

Actually with the current download only model, there's no such thing as dead stock nor distribution costs and limited packaging costs if a bricks and mortar shop stocks packages of serial numbers only.

With respect to Win 10 audio improvements, what we currently call WDM or ASIO drivers will have to be completely rewritten to take advantage of the new lower latency. Perhaps it will bring about a newer driver model to take advantage of the Win 10 features.

Anderton
They also showed that the audio optimizations in Windows 10 were cutting latency about in half compared to Windows 7, and that's without drivers optimized for the other tech changes.

 
It is very cool that they are putting focus on audio. This specific point has more to do with the Windows audio stack (that uses Microsoft's audio engine). There is more relevant info in this powerpoint.
i.e. Desktop apps that use WASAPI shared mode and exclusive mode will benefit from it as well as Universal apps. My understanding is apps that use WDM kernel streaming /ASIO won't directly benefit since they bypass the windows audio engine completely. Its still useful a welcomed improvement, however and we'll look into enhancing our WASAPI support at some point.
 
We should all be happy and commend MS's for their renewed involvement in our space as demonstrated by their communications with the industry and presence at shows like this. We saw some bleak years in the Vista age but things are looking up :)

I'm pretty sure he did mention WDM improvements that accured just from the general system optimizations and existing drivers (which I presume would also affect ASIO), but the presenter was trying to cram in a lot of information and maybe I misunderstood. The emphasis was on WASAPI, but he was also mentioned some forward-looking improvements that were expected to be rolled out, which was how the rolling updates angle got brought up.
 
Someone asked about interface aggregation, and he said it was planned. I asked a question and said I was confused, because I always thought you could aggregate with WDM because SONAR did it. He corrected me and said that Cakewalk was the only company that got it right 

Anderton
I'm pretty sure he did mention WDM improvements that accured just from the general system optimizations and existing drivers (which I presume would also affect ASIO), but the presenter was trying to cram in a lot of information and maybe I misunderstood. The emphasis was on WASAPI, but he was also mentioned some forward-looking improvements that were expected to be rolled out, which was how the rolling updates angle got brought up.
 
Someone asked about interface aggregation, and he said it was planned. I asked a question and said I was confused, because I always thought you could aggregate with WDM because SONAR did it. He corrected me and said that Cakewalk was the only company that got it right 

The only improvement I saw in the WINHEC presentation was the ability to signal low latency support from WDM up to WASAPI. If there are actual performance improvements they would have to be at a lower level in the WDM stack since kernel streaming/ASIO drivers themselves are quite low level. Inbox USB2 audio support is cool however since it allows hardware vendors to release drivers without custom support.
We had some talks with MS about aggregation quite awhile ago so they are aware of it and they also know that the Mac supports it so its definitely on their radar. I wouldn't hold your breath though - I'm sure it will take some doing before that happens.

Here's why I thought the improvements had something to do with WDM. This slide was part of Microsoft's presentation on OS 10 and audio.
 

Anderton
 They are planning on approximately quarterly point releases, and incrementing the version number every year or two (which would at that point trigger an update cost).

Craig,
There was one very important nugget I noticed in your original post (among all the other useful nuggets).  The choice of a "quarterly release cycle" appeals to me as a user.  The excitement of the monthly update is starting to lose its shine.  Of course I can always wait a couple of months to update but, as I understand it, this will not save any time since all of the previous month's updates will be installed to allow roll-back if needed. (Please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood how updates work but try to be gentle, we artists are a sensitive breed )
 
Of course, a monthly update would appeal to some and it probably helps with the marketing. 
 
Thanks for keeping us updated on Window 10, I reside on a desert island in the south seas (Australia) and am therefore well away from all the IT action.
 
Cheers,
R

Thanks Noel,
One thing underlying my preference for the quarterly update that I didn't mention was that it would be my hope that the quarterly update cycle would give CW more time to debug the new code, which would allow the users to move from one clean, stable version to the next.  I do appreciate the new features and content but I think most users would put reliability at the top of their list (no, I haven't taken a survey so it is only conjecture).  
 
I do understand that CW relies to some extent on a keen band of committed users that act as "beta testers" so CW does need to get the updates out to them to find out how the work on a the myriad of hardware and software environments.  Lately a portion of the month (~10 days) has been required for this task.  On a quarterly cycle this would not seem so large.
 
I will leave the topic here and hope that it might be something for CW might look at later on, maybe after Sonar users have had a year's experience with the new license arrangement.  Thanks again for your consideration.
 
Cheers,
R

Just because things are released every month does not mean they're only spending a month working on them...

RD9
Thanks Noel,
One thing underlying my preference for the quarterly update that I didn't mention was that it would be my hope that the quarterly update cycle would give CW more time to debug the new code, which would allow the users to move from one clean, stable version to the next.  I do appreciate the new features and content but I think most users would put reliability at the top of their list (no, I haven't taken a survey so it is only conjecture).  
I do understand that CW relies to some extent on a keen band of committed users that act as "beta testers" so CW does need to get the updates out to them to find out how the work on a the myriad of hardware and software environments.  Lately a portion of the month (~10 days) has been required for this task.  On a quarterly cycle this would not seem so large.

 
Releasing monthly doesn't reduce quality. Two big reasons:
 
- As Karyn mentioned we don't develop and release features end to end within a month necessarily unless they are truly small features. Often they are incremental feature enhancements or we have been working on it several months before you see it. Drum replacer is a good example.
 
- The scope of whats released is is much smaller. This gives is more time to thoroughly vet the feature. This is not that different from what we did earlier in a typical annual cycle except that end users never got to see it until a year later. i.e. we'd finish up a smaller feature much earlier on in the year, test it and then and move on to other stuff.
 
And to clarify we have an internal beta team of typically about a 100 users, in addition to official Cakewalk QA engineers who are always looking at anything new as well as regression testing older features.
 
Its well accepted in the software industry that this approach yields better quality software. The fact like a giant like Microsoft is doing this should be evidence that a lot of thought has been given to this methodology.

It will all work brilliantly once the backlog has been cleared I'm sure. I think CCC and other stuff has taken up too much time until now. I'm not complaining though it was necessary.

Next month hopefully we shall see a return to heavy bug slaying.

Not true if planned correctly. And before people starting barking all bugs will never be fixed.. That's a different point and yep.