Not sure where to search for this answer

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aceteleman
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2012/05/01 15:00:28 (permalink)

Not sure where to search for this answer

Not quite sure how to search for the answer to this.....


Back when I was using Pro Audio 7, there was an option to highlight a portion of a clip/track and boost or lower the level of that portion in 3db increments. I'm just wondering if there's a similar option in Sonar and what it's called if there is cuz I can't find it. 



I realize that automation is probably the way this should be done but that seems like a lot of work to me to lower the level of just one word that's less than a second in duration. The other method seems to me a quicker fix. The only problem I ever found with that though was the 3db increments, sometimes not enough and one more increment was too much.....



I'm still a newbie with Sonar and I haven't gotten to experimenting with automations yet but I probably will with this issue but I'd still like to know if the other method is available to use.



Thanks

#1

13 Replies Related Threads

    Lynn
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 15:22:51 (permalink)
    I'm not at my music computer at the moment, but I believe it's something simple like process>gain where you have several choices of incremental gain control.  If I'm wrong, I'm sure  someone will correct me.

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    Lynn

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    #2
    benjaminfrog
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 16:06:34 (permalink)
    Lynn's correct. 

    The advantage of using automation, though, is that the edit is non-destructive, which is nice if you later realize that raising it 2dB would have sounded better. You can use the gain process an infinite number of times, but theoretically the sound quality is degraded slightly each time. Plus, automation isn't all that complicated or that much slower once you get the hang of it. Just thought I'd throw a plug in.
    #3
    digi2ns
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 16:15:27 (permalink)
    Not at my Comp either but I believe you can go to the section of the clip in Track View, Left click and drag the section you want to raise, Right click in that highlighted section and you should get the option to insert Gain, pan, etc...  effects just the highlighted section.


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    #4
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 16:41:19 (permalink)
    Or you could insert V-Vocal on the clip and use the dynamics page to raise it

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    #5
    aceteleman
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 16:55:54 (permalink)
    benjaminfrog


    Lynn's correct. 

    The advantage of using automation, though, is that the edit is non-destructive, which is nice if you later realize that raising it 2dB would have sounded better. You can use the gain process an infinite number of times, but theoretically the sound quality is degraded slightly each time. Plus, automation isn't all that complicated or that much slower once you get the hang of it. Just thought I'd throw a plug in.



    Ok I've been experimenting and watching tut's and I can see where automation would be a benefit, and easy to do, if what I was dealing with was a section I had time to do a gradual fade. 

      However, what I'm dealing with here is just one note/word in a phrase and the duration of that one word is probably barely 1 tick, no time to do the fader thing and get it exactly right just on that one short note.  

        Following digi2's advice, which essentially I think he meant doing a 'fade' in/out, which is what I ended up doing and got the desired result. I didn't find the options he spoke of to 'insert gain, pan, by right clicking the the highlighted section. Got a big long menu but that option wasn't among the many. (I'm using X1 Producer if that makes any difference.)   

    Regardless, I'm learning a lot of tricks from you more experienced users and I really appreciate it all, even if a suggestion doesn't work out for me....

    Thanks again everyone....



    post edited by aceteleman - 2012/05/01 17:17:18
    #6
    aceteleman
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 17:04:56 (permalink)
    digi2ns


    Not at my Comp either but I believe you can go to the section of the clip in Track View, Left click and drag the section you want to raise, Right click in that highlighted section and you should get the option to insert Gain, pan, etc...  effects just the highlighted section.








    Ok, I tried the right click thing first and it opened a long menu of options but I didn't find the ones you speak of here digi2 unless they're in a sub menu somewhere that I missed, I looked in all the sub menues.  


    However, the other thing of left click and drag, essentially a fade out/in I guess, I was able to achieve the desired result of lowering the level on that one short word/note. 


    This is all a learning process to me so I really appreciate all the tips and tricks ya'll give. Now retaining that knowledge is another question, hahahaha...



    Thanks again....




    #7
    aceteleman
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 17:13:23 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey


    Or you could insert V-Vocal on the clip and use the dynamics page to raise it


    I was wondering about V-Vocal. I think I remember seeing something about that in one of the video tut's I have but haven't gotten that far in my experimentation. Actually I needed to 'lower' that note/word but I presume that what you suggest here goes either way. And I see that using automation would work quite easily if the section was long enough to do a gradual incrementation with the fader. After several attempts I found that wasn't going to do it for me. But I now know the basics of using automation which is a good thing, learn something new every day...


    I resolved the issue successfully by following digi2's advice, essentially a fadeout on that one spot. 




    #8
    digi2ns
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 17:51:11 (permalink)
    aceteleman


    digi2ns


    Not at my Comp either but I believe you can go to the section of the clip in Track View, Left click and drag the section you want to raise, Right click in that highlighted section and you should get the option to insert Gain, pan, etc...  effects just the highlighted section.








    Ok, I tried the right click thing first and it opened a long menu of options but I didn't find the ones you speak of here digi2 unless they're in a sub menu somewhere that I missed, I looked in all the sub menues.  


    However, the other thing of left click and drag, essentially a fade out/in I guess, I was able to achieve the desired result of lowering the level on that one short word/note. 


    This is all a learning process to me so I really appreciate all the tips and tricks ya'll give. Now retaining that knowledge is another question, hahahaha...



    Thanks again....



    Hey Ace,
    Glad ya figured out what ya needed.  I just went and checked. To do it the other way I was thinking of would be to split that note/word into a clip and then insert an FX bin on it and go that route.  Many ways to achieve the desired end product and lots of talent here to give advice.
     
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    #9
    benjaminfrog
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 17:54:00 (permalink)
    Glad you were able to fix what you needed to, aceteleman. 

    I use clip automation all the time to level vocals. Just split the clip around the words you want to adjust the level of, switch over to clip gain automation and raise or lower the individual words (clips) by the desired amount. 

    You mentioned that the word you were editing was particularly short - I've used this technique on the individual syllables of words. Works great and sounds way more natural than relying solely on compression to get a consistent level.
    #10
    musicroom
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/01 21:50:28 (permalink)
    aceteleman


    Not quite sure how to search for the answer to this.....


    Back when I was using Pro Audio 7, there was an option to highlight a portion of a clip/track and boost or lower the level of that portion in 3db increments. I'm just wondering if there's a similar option in Sonar and what it's called if there is cuz I can't find it. 



    I realize that automation is probably the way this should be done but that seems like a lot of work to me to lower the level of just one word that's less than a second in duration. The other method seems to me a quicker fix. The only problem I ever found with that though was the 3db increments, sometimes not enough and one more increment was too much.....



    I'm still a newbie with Sonar and I haven't gotten to experimenting with automations yet but I probably will with this issue but I'd still like to know if the other method is available to use.



    Thanks






    Hey Aceteleman. One of my favorite guitars.

    What you were asking for is there. I sometimes use that tool for raising, lowering and/or muting. 
    1) Select the area within the clip
    2) Very top menu -->Process->Apply Effect->Gain  (I assigned the keystroke "Ctrl M")








    Echoing what some folks here have mentioned - using envelopes, check out Scott Garrigus's video here --> Link

    He covers some envelope editing for both 8.53 and Sonar X1. Good stuff! Very fast way to do the work you are talking about.

     
    Dave
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    #11
    aceteleman
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/05 18:56:51 (permalink)
    Thanks again. It was already split into a clip because I had to do some 'creative' editing on that one word. Basically it's the 'F' word and my partner that sang the harmony is a staunch Christian and I couldn't get him to say the word even for artistic license, lol. So I clipped it from my portion and added it to his, our voices are close enough that you can't even tell a change. But doing a fade out thing did the trick real well.....


    Lee

    #12
    aceteleman
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/05 19:02:53 (permalink)
    musicroom


    aceteleman


    Not quite sure how to search for the answer to this.....


    Back when I was using Pro Audio 7, there was an option to highlight a portion of a clip/track and boost or lower the level of that portion in 3db increments. I'm just wondering if there's a similar option in Sonar and what it's called if there is cuz I can't find it. 



    I realize that automation is probably the way this should be done but that seems like a lot of work to me to lower the level of just one word that's less than a second in duration. The other method seems to me a quicker fix. The only problem I ever found with that though was the 3db increments, sometimes not enough and one more increment was too much.....



    I'm still a newbie with Sonar and I haven't gotten to experimenting with automations yet but I probably will with this issue but I'd still like to know if the other method is available to use.



    Thanks






    Hey Aceteleman. One of my favorite guitars.

    What you were asking for is there. I sometimes use that tool for raising, lowering and/or muting. 
    1) Select the area within the clip
    2) Very top menu -->Process->Apply Effect->Gain  (I assigned the keystroke "Ctrl M")








    Echoing what some folks here have mentioned - using envelopes, check out Scott Garrigus's video here --> Link

    He covers some envelope editing for both 8.53 and Sonar X1. Good stuff! Very fast way to do the work you are talking about.

    I'll look into that video you posted here, thanks for that. And even tho I've resolved the issue another way I'll also look at what you suggested in the screen shot, doesn't hurt to know more than one method of madness......


    Yeah, Tele's are my favorite guitar too. I have 2 Standards and a Custom and a 5 string Jazz bass. Also have a Strat but I rarely play it, in fact my buddy has it in his studio right now, lol....




    #13
    musicroom
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    Re:Not sure where to search for this answer 2012/05/05 20:46:36 (permalink)
    I have a 1974 Thinline that has been with me since that time. Never plan to part with that one...

     
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