Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :)

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BenMMusTech
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2017/03/11 08:30:54 (permalink)

Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M33zt2Ued98
This is a cover of the lost Threetle Anthology track Now and Then. I posted this one, way back when...probably 2011 or somewhere around there...but I was never happy, as is my want. There were glaring timing errors, and out of tune vocals for one. So I went back and redid the vocals, using Reaper's Digi-Vari-Speed to do the main vox but not the outro vox...I wanted to keep that au-natural.
 
My production skills weren't much cop back in 2011, so I've completely gutted the basic backing track, and redid all the lead guitars, I've kept the original bass which was done on an Epiphone Hofner or Beatle bass replica, the drums are Ringo's Beat Kit from Session Drummer 3. Both drums and bass have gone through a Fairchild VST Waves to precise, and I must say the heft I get from Waves Fairchild VST is I think as good as the real thing. I've also added some slide bits here and there, my guitar really isn't designed for slide, otherwise it would all be slide probably.
 
Oh, probably one of the most important discovery's I've made since 2011 is the passive eq in the mastering chain...this is one of the keys to that 'sound'.  
 
I've also gone back and fixed the traditional music vid I did for the clip, and made it seem like a proper old film.
 
Anyway enjoy.
 
Ben

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    synkrotron
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/11 09:30:33 (permalink)
    That was very well done Ben

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    #2
    kakku
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/11 15:43:33 (permalink)
    Great job. Video was also very good.

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    #3
    Beagle
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/11 16:14:04 (permalink)
    Ben it still has your unique style all over it!  
     
    this is good - video is interesting too.  good work.

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    #4
    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/12 07:11:40 (permalink)
    Thanks guys for the listen and support over the years.

    Ben

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    #5
    Wookiee
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/12 12:15:09 (permalink)
    Definitely a Ben produced track, nicely done both music and video, thanks for sharing.

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    Lynn
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/12 18:01:18 (permalink)
    Neb, I mean Ben, this is 3 or 4 db's from a masterpiece.  That is, your terrific, John Lennon-like vocals are somewhat buried in the thick music, and a decent boost would elevate this track into legendary status.  Perhaps the ending carries on a bit long, but that's a minor point.  Overall, this is a gem!

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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/13 07:37:06 (permalink)
    Double Post...sorry
     
    Ben

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    #8
    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/13 07:41:22 (permalink)
    Lynn
    Neb, I mean Ben, this is 3 or 4 db's from a masterpiece.  That is, your terrific, John Lennon-like vocals are somewhat buried in the thick music, and a decent boost would elevate this track into legendary status.  Perhaps the ending carries on a bit long, but that's a minor point.  Overall, this is a gem!




    Thanks Lynn, I've missed your comments but I don't listen to much new music on the forum, and I'm sorry for that to everyone.
     
    Lynn, even my skills have limits lol, carving that vocal out took a couple of days, and in reality I stared this track in 2011, so it's six years...and it's also possible ;), that I need a second pair of ears, and yes I said that. 
     
    Thanks to you for all the comments and listens over the years Lynn.
     
    Ben

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    #9
    biodiode
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/13 08:46:11 (permalink)
    Well produced track and video. Lynn has made a good suggestion and would certainly add to the track.

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    Rimshot
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/13 21:05:20 (permalink)
    Well done Ben! I really enjoyed that. My fav from you. Nice mix, vocals, arrangement and video.
    Hope all is well.


    Rimshot 

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    #11
    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/14 05:49:41 (permalink)
    Hi Jimmy, thanks for comments and listening. 
     
    I'm alright, could be better...just finished a Masters of Philoshopy, waiting for marking...up to 6 months of being in limbo.
     
    Cheers Ben

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    emeraldsoul
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/15 05:04:07 (permalink)
    Cool from the get go! Your vocal really is great and the bgv's, and the mellotronishness, it's just a really great re-creation of the Beatles vibe. And then you add some effects here and there, it all fits.
     
    There is no reason you shouldn't let it run long, given the subject matter, if that is what obviously pleases you!
     
    But from the emotionally-neutral listener's perspective, if something is 5 and a half long, maybe a different part in the middle, or an interlude, or a drum solo, or something to break up the pattern for a bit would be a thought.
     
    Or my attention span is just too short. And you are writing this for yourself, so there you go.
     
    It's a great choice of song and you did a great job bringing the past to life.
     
    cheers,
    -Tom

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    #13
    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/15 06:13:40 (permalink)
    Thanks Tom, the mellotronish is actually GMedia's virtual mellotron, which Rick Wakeman said to his ears was virtually indistinguishable from the real thing...and he should know he recorded some of the original Mellotron sounds. As for length, the base track was done some years ago, when my skill level wasn't as great. Rather than redesign the whole track, which would have problematic due to the fact I don't have a virtual Mellotron anymore, Windows 10 doesn't like the installer disk and files and for that matter nor does Sonar, and also I don't have my Epiphone Hofner replica, I decided to keep the base structure. But thank you for listening and your comments.
     
    Ben

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    emeraldsoul
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/15 13:24:47 (permalink)
    BenMMusTech
    Rather than redesign the whole track, which would have problematic due to the fact I don't have a virtual Mellotron anymore, Windows 10 doesn't like the installer disk and files and for that matter nor does Sonar, and also I don't have my Epiphone Hofner replica, I decided to keep the base structure. 




    Gosh I am glad there's someone else who is pragmatic about a list of obstacles like this! Ben that makes me feel better about my own list . . . one does not simply wave a magic wand and resurrect an old project. You did good.     -Tom

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    Starise
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/15 13:58:25 (permalink)
    Very nice Ben. Has that Beatles retro stamp all over it, yet it retains the signature Ben sound. I can tell your fingers were at the mixing board. Nice work. You have way more patience than I do. It would be hard for me to return to something I mixed a long time ago and re work it. Might be fun though.

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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/15 22:57:22 (permalink)
    emeraldsoul
    BenMMusTech
    Rather than redesign the whole track, which would have problematic due to the fact I don't have a virtual Mellotron anymore, Windows 10 doesn't like the installer disk and files and for that matter nor does Sonar, and also I don't have my Epiphone Hofner replica, I decided to keep the base structure. 




    Gosh I am glad there's someone else who is pragmatic about a list of obstacles like this! Ben that makes me feel better about my own list . . . one does not simply wave a magic wand and resurrect an old project. You did good.     -Tom




    Hi Tom, I have issues lol. But in all seriousness, I'm actually a Techno-Romantic/Modernist, something I worked out during my Masters of Philosophy (Fine Farts) degree lol, ;) yes I can take the piss out of myself. Basically, a romantic and a modernist artist would keep experimenting till they got it right. This is the problem with today's post-modernist, post-digital world...the post-modernist's rejected the modernists' idealistic experimentation, this is causing much larger problems, because in a techno centric world as both the aforementioned movements have demonstrated...idealistic experimentation is essential in mastering both current and emerging technology. Otherwise, we have the I-Fools button pressers...oh yea I'm a musician/artist...I can press a button and play someone elses sample, and call it whatever. :) 
     
    Thanks Tom

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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/15 23:12:08 (permalink)
    Starise
    Very nice Ben. Has that Beatles retro stamp all over it, yet it retains the signature Ben sound. I can tell your fingers were at the mixing board. Nice work. You have way more patience than I do. It would be hard for me to return to something I mixed a long time ago and re work it. Might be fun though.




    Hi Tim, as I said to Tom...issues. For me, it's not only about going back and re-mixing and fixing things, its about learning and experimenting. When I got the RS56 Waves Passive EQ, I knew I had discovered a key element in not only The Beatles sound, but in mastering full stop. This meant, all my previous works, the ones I believed were of a certain standard needed to be re-mixed and mastered. I must I've also worked out a particular formula for each channel too, involving two types of EQ, and also emulation like the console and tape and where to put them in the signal chain. Basically I've mastered Alan Parson's black back drop theory, but because I'm completely digital, I've added the flavor in. And this is another key, that I've discovered during my research degree...you have to add the flavor back in with digital, unlike analogue which prints with analogue flavor, and of course this is what makes the digitized medium such a good storage container.
     
    Thanks Tim
    Ben 

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    daryl1968
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/16 16:34:34 (permalink)
    this is great Ben. Really creative
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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/16 21:43:23 (permalink)
    daryl1968
    this is great Ben. Really creative




    Thanks Daryl. Creative is my thing :), apparently. 
    Ben

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/18 22:32:52 (permalink)
    I think Ben is a bit of a master on Beatles stuff. He really knows and understands a lot about them.  And what is particularly hard is trying to recreate the Beatles sound. It is totally unique as far as I am concerned.  Ben manages to get those electric guitars sounding so authentic which is damn hard I reckon. And the rest of the parts too.
     
    Since reading the book Lennon by Tim Riley I have a very deep appreciation now not only about John himself but the whole band and its sound too.
     
    There are just some sounds that would be nearly impossible to copy. Another one is All Along the Watchtower by Hendrix. That whole sound and groove is just strange to say the least. Imagine trying to get that down to perfection. It would be hard and I mean hard!

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    BenMMusTech
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    Re: Now And Then-Final Beatles experiment :) 2017/03/19 00:16:51 (permalink)
    Jeff Evans
    I think Ben is a bit of a master on Beatles stuff. He really knows and understands a lot about them.  And what is particularly hard is trying to recreate the Beatles sound. It is totally unique as far as I am concerned.  Ben manages to get those electric guitars sounding so authentic which is damn hard I reckon. And the rest of the parts too.
     
    Since reading the book Lennon by Tim Riley I have a very deep appreciation now not only about John himself but the whole band and its sound too.
     
    There are just some sounds that would be nearly impossible to copy. Another one is All Along the Watchtower by Hendrix. That whole sound and groove is just strange to say the least. Imagine trying to get that down to perfection. It would be hard and I mean hard!




    Thanks Jeff, it's not too hard now Jeff lol...but that's after 20 years of practice, practice, practice in regards to audio production, and of course research, research, research. The key to Beatle guitars, and I'm not going to give away the complete formula, but but the key is 2nd and 3rd harmonics...that's it. I also use a Vox emulator, but it's not a Beatle Vox emulator it's emulated from a 1980s one, apparently the GR4 one. The other key is knowing where to play the guitar parts on the fret board, this is where 31 years of musicianship comes into play.
     
    Those sounds of Hendrix, and The Beatles, because Hendrix's sound is an extension of The Beatles sound due to the links between all the rock-avant-gardes ;) aren't that hard to emulate either...it has a lot to do with varispeed, which Reaper's is excellent for, understanding the analogue emulation paradigm...http://meterplugs.com/blog/2016/12/15/do-plugins-have-a-loudness-sweet-spot.html this is what I've been saying for many years and many on this forum said I was mad :), but this sort of proves there is a difference in analogue engineering and digital engineering, those Waves Kramer Pye plugs are great, add that with Cakewalk's Tape, Tube and Console emulators, and finally the Pultec, and here is your 60's sound. Finally, the RS56 emulator is a key in getting those transients sweet in mastering. I still haven't given the complete formula though lol, also pumping up the verbs and delays with binaural tech, helps give fix the digital conundrum...again, you have to add in to make digital work...otherwise like most analogue engineers will tell you, digital sound flat compared to analogue.
     
    Again, this is not the complete formula...there are secrets throughout the signal chain which need to be followed to create the sixties sounds using a complete digital system...and as I have been saying for nigh on 20 years, I can create these sounds for a fraction of the price of a studio, and I've done all this on headphones...1000 dollar headphones lol, but still headphones. Once we can get people to realize the creative possibilities of digital, and how limitless the digital is, even the most basic and crude of digital, music will again be a force to be reckoned with...of course we need to encourage kids to pick up an instrument again.
     
    One day, I might give the whole formula in a series of how-to instruction videos to the world...at the moment however, it is still the only thing that gives me the edge...I have given enough information though, for someone to reverse engineer my technique :).
     
    Peace and Love Neb 

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