jsg
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Now, I can use some help! RESOLVED!
I've been recording with Sonar for some 26 years. I cannot remember the last time I had an audio issue. But now I do. I included a link to a sample of the problem, a short mp3 file. I've tried raising my audio buffers to 1024, I always keep them at 512. I've tried deleting the aud.ini file and starting Sonar so it can create a new one. I've tried recording from a soft synth running under Sonar and recording a MIDI track from my external VSL library computer, but it doesn't seem to matter the source, the problem is still heard. I've tried lifting the i/o disk read/write from the default 256 to 512. I have the latest MOTU audio drivers for the 1248. I am running Sonar Platinum 2007.3 (released in March) and have Windows 7 with 16GB of RAM and 2 fast HHD drives. Here's the problem: http://www.jerrygerber.com/mp3/test.mp3Little audio crackles are heard throughout the recording. Thanks for helping me to resolve this! Jerry www.jerrygerber.com
post edited by jsg - 2017/06/25 02:16:53
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chuckebaby
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/24 21:10:57
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if nothing has changed and this problem came out of the blue I suspect something very obvious and not too trivial.
I would start by unplugging devices and power down and reboot.
Then I would power down all devices for a minimum of 30-60 seconds.
Check to make certain your driver mode hasn't changed.
I have had similar issues in the past where a cable to my interface and also once a bad USB port.
Where my devise would work but had static, drop outs, Noise similar to wireless interference.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/24 21:15:40
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It sounds like digital clipping to my ears. Check all gain stages and then check them again ;)
CJ
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chuckebaby
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/24 21:20:03
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CJaysMusic
It sounds like digital clipping to my ears. Check all gain stages and then check them again ;)
CJ
Normally I would agree, however clipping is an ugly sound. This sounds more like wireless interference, a bad cable, a USB port going array.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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jsg
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/24 21:21:04
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CJaysMusic
It sounds like digital clipping to my ears. Check all gain stages and then check them again ;)
CJ
I've checked my entire signal path, and cannot find out where any gain stage is clipping. All my metering is showing normal recording levels. I'll check again. Thanks, Jerry
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mettelus
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/24 22:33:06
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That chirping is also what you would get from placing a cell phone too close to a speaker phone before the "star phones" received mods to eliminate it. Do you have any portable transmission devices anywhere near your cabling/physical signal path?
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/24 22:33:55
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If its not your cables and its not clipping, then it could be an IRQ conflict.
Or you could have some sort of effect on the clip level that you cannot see, like an Vinyl effect.
CJ
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gswitz
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/24 22:53:07
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My mouse did this. I went and got the driver from logitec and the problem hasn't returned.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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jsg
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/24 23:48:13
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mettelus
That chirping is also what you would get from placing a cell phone too close to a speaker phone before the "star phones" received mods to eliminate it. Do you have any portable transmission devices anywhere near your cabling/physical signal path?
No, I turned off my cell phone and disabled my wireless internet connection. Also swapped out my USB cable for a new one and tried a different USB port. I also updated Sonar to the latest version and deleted my aud.ini file and reopened sonar. I am now updating Windows, but I doubt that's the issue as my updates are pretty up-to-date and missing only 3 files. I've tried turning everything off and rebooting. crackling still there. It's not clipping, doesn't sound like clipping, clipping is different Perhaps the 1248 has a hardware problem (it's only 3 months old). I'll try a new mouse driver but I doubt that is the problem. Crapola!!! This is really slowing me down... I'll call MOTU on Monday.
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jpetersen
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:07:40
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Not clipping.
At what appears totally random points, the waveform gets pulled to zero for between 1 to 6 samples before recovering.
Happens on positive and negative transitions
Very strange.
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tlw
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:10:48
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It does sound something like there's digital clipping just on the transient peaks.
I'm not saying that's definitely what it is, but without looking at the original uncompressed wave-form greatly magnified to see what the transient peaks look like, that's one thing I'd suspect. Inter-sample clipping maybe?
Is the audio source a pre-recorded commercial track, played by software synths/sampler or recorded via the interface? I've come across something similar sounding caused by poor or corroded cable to plug connections in audio leads
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Tom B
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:13:01
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The offending clicks can be seen clearly when zooming in on the waveform. The nice sinusoidal audio waveform has several samples of glitches/corruption around the clicks. The glitches occur simultaneously on both channels. Doesn't appear to be clipping. It looks like some bits are getting lost in the sample. Just checking on your setup ... I'm assuming the recorded audio is via an analog input on the MOTU (i.e. not, bounced soft synth samples). Given that assumption, many of the above suggestions seem like a good place to start. But, looks like you've tried some of those already. Another thing to check is the MOTU clock source. Perhaps that changed somehow. For my RME, this setting is located under the SONAR Preferences>Audio Driver Settings and pressing the "ASIO Panel" button. If there's not external HW clocking, the clock source should usually be set to "Internal". Maybe my first paragraph will help someone recognize the problem. As you say, it might be the MOTU unit. P.S. 'jpeterson' posted similar info about the audio waveform glitches a few minutes before my post.
post edited by Tom B - 2017/06/25 01:33:30
- Tom B. See the new Cakewalk by Bandlab Forum - Jan 2019.
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jsg
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:17:08
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tlw
It does sound something like there's digital clipping just on the transient peaks.
I'm not saying that's definitely what it is, but without looking at the original uncompressed wave-form greatly magnified to see what the transient peaks look like, that's one thing I'd suspect. Inter-sample clipping maybe?
Is the audio source a pre-recorded commercial track, played by software synths/sampler or recorded via the interface? I've come across something similar sounding caused by poor or corroded cable to plug connections in audio leads
I've tried two audio sources, from a 2nd computer that is dedicated to my VSL library, the midi tracks go into it via ethernet and come out via ADAT into the MOTU 1248. I also used a soft synth in my DAW as an audio source, same problem. I can rule out the VSL machine and ADAT because when I take it out of the equation, the problem still remains. It must be Sonar or the 1248. My levels are very moderate, not even near clipping levels. I monitor every source and every destination, can find no clipping throughout the signal path. MIDI playback is flawless, it's only when I record and playback the wave file that the crackling occurs.
post edited by jsg - 2017/06/25 00:56:39
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MarioD
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:30:25
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I had a similar sound earlier this year. I cleaned up my studio and in the process I moved my router. It was to close to my computer and that was causing the problems. When I moved it back a few inches the problems went away. YMMV.
The reason people say the vinyl sounds better is because the music was better. Sonar Platinum, Intel i7 –2600 CPU @ 3.2 GHz, 16 GB ram, 2x2TB internal drives and 1 1TB internal drive, Radeon HD 5570 video card, HP 25" monitor,
Roland Octa Capture, MOTU Midi Express 128, Win 10 Pro
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ampfixer
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:33:02
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Is it perhaps a bad or loose cable inside the computer? I'm thinking the SATA cables that run from the MB controller to the drive. It doesn't sound like clipping to me. More like static. If you can play midi stuff and it sounds good, then you've sort of cleared the interface and Sonar. If you can do direct monitoring and it sounds ok but you hear ticks from the version that printed to disk, then it would point more to an issue inside the box.
ANy recent windows updates that may have turned on the wi-fi or onboard audio etc. without you knowing?
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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jpetersen
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:33:15
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MIDI works. Then the interface must be fine, too.
What if you play back a WAV or MP3 using just Windows Media Player (anything but Sonar)?
...I mean, of course, a WAV or MP3 that is proven to be OK - not one you record now!
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jsg
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:38:47
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jpetersen
MIDI works. Then the interface must be fine, too.
What if you play back a WAV or MP3 using just Windows Media Player (anything but Sonar)?
playback of midi files and wave files already created before today playback fine. It's only when I try to record.
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jsg
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:40:06
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ampfixer
Is it perhaps a bad or loose cable inside the computer? I'm thinking the SATA cables that run from the MB controller to the drive. It doesn't sound like clipping to me. More like static. If you can play midi stuff and it sounds good, then you've sort of cleared the interface and Sonar. If you can do direct monitoring and it sounds ok but you hear ticks from the version that printed to disk, then it would point more to an issue inside the box.
ANy recent windows updates that may have turned on the wi-fi or onboard audio etc. without you knowing?
Yeah, that what it sounds like to me static, rather than clipping. I don't think any changes to Windows or wifi but I'll check again...
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jsg
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:40:20
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thanks everybody for trying to help, very much appreciated...
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jpetersen
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:41:21
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OK. Then it can still be the interface.
Is this the only interface you have? (I have 8!)
Trying to determine if its Sonar or the interface.
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jpetersen
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:46:40
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Failing that, you could try record by using the built-in audio (Realtek?) in your computer.
It would involve connecting a microphone headset to the PC jack.
Then set up Sonar to record from the internal audio hardware.
If that works, it's beginning to point at the interface (or driver)
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jsg
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 00:56:59
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I just tried a 3rd audio source, live microphone recording. The problem still persists, but I also tried recording using Sound Forge and again, the problem is there. So I can rule out Sonar.
Here's a possibility: We bought an electric car last week and had a 240volt charger installed in the garage. But it's on different circuit from my studio and it's at least 20 or 30 feet away from my studio. I hope this isn't the issue! I cannot think of anything that has changed other than that. Older wave files play back fine, MIDI plays back fine. Only when I record something new does the static appear. And one other thing, if there is no sound source at the time of recording, there is no crackling. The crackling seems coupled to the audio signal. Hmm....
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jpetersen
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 01:03:39
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I shouldn't think it's the charger.
That would cause spikes in the audio, and they would be more regular.
What is clearly happening is the waveform dives to zero for a few samples.
So if there is no audio coming in, the line is already always at zero which means there's going to be no crackling.
Looks like a fault of some kind.
But where...
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Unknowen
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 01:10:02
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Are you using a power conditioner?
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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jpetersen
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 01:10:08
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When you say 3rd audio source, I assume all sources so far have had to pass through the interface?
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jpetersen
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 01:13:54
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OH, I beg your pardon, you already stated:
"I've tried recording from a soft synth running under Sonar and recording a MIDI track from my external VSL library computer, but it doesn't seem to matter the source, the problem is still heard."
OK, so it's also happening when you record without the interface.
What I'd try is do a software recording with something else, like Audacity recording a 1kHz "chirp" (that's a feature in Audacity where you can create a short clip of a tone)
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jsg
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 01:25:51
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jpetersen
I shouldn't think it's the charger.
That would cause spikes in the audio, and they would be more regular.
What is clearly happening is the waveform dives to zero for a few samples.
So if there is no audio coming in, the line is already always at zero which means there's going to be no crackling.
Looks like a fault of some kind.
But where...
No, it's not the charger. I turned it off at the circuit breaker and the problem still persists. It may be 1248. I swapped USB cables, so it's not that either. urgh!! troubleshooting all day and I wanted to compose. ;>( PROBLEM FOUND!!!!! Hallelujah!!! MOTU screwed up, they just released a new audio driver for the 1248 as well as new firmware. The firmware won't even install, something wrong there, but I did install the new driver. The newest drivers are always the best, right? Wrong. This was the culprit. I rolled back to the earlier driver and the static is gone. Persistence is the key to successful troubleshooting. You really have to try everything....Too bad we don't know the order to start the process of elimination before beginning the troubleshooting! Thanks again for caring enough to respond! Jerry www.jerrygerber.com
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jpetersen
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 01:26:08
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Getting late, I have to log out.
I have no more ideas anyway. But I'm interested in the problem and will look in tomorrow morning.
But just to sum up: it is not interference, not from phones nor chargers.
The audio waveform strongly suggests some hardware or software component cannot keep up
and drops out of operation for some samples.
Edit: Just saw your latest post. Excellent! Now I can sleep peacefully.
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gswitz
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 01:49:31
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I record on the same circuit as a chevy volt that wall charges. I've never had a related issue.
Enjoy your electric car!
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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jsg
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Re: Now, I can use some help!
2017/06/25 02:18:05
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gswitz
I record on the same circuit as a chevy volt that wall charges. I've never had a related issue.
Enjoy your electric car!
Thanks, I just bought the Chevy Bolt. Wow! What a car, 238 miles per charge and no gasoline. Chevy really did their homework on this one...
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