Axeman49
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Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
I upgraded to a new machine and windows and sonar X3e are at 64bits. Now I have a big latency problem. Anyone have any thoughts on this............. ? Thanks, dan
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scook
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 01:29:17
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There is not enough information about the X3 and interface configuration to offer any suggestions. The changes from 32bit to 64bit OS and DAW are not enough to introduce any latency. There may be plug-in delay compensation in the project too.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 03:15:08
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Are all latency/buffer, I/O drivers settings and such the same as before?
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dwardzala
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 07:27:49
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I this an off the shelf machine or one that you built (or had built) explicitly for audio work? This sounds like it might be a driver or bloatware issue, but I think we need some more information.
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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chuckebaby
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 08:55:25
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check your driver settings. using ASIO ? have an audio interface ?
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 08:59:34
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There are several ways latency can exist, including: hardware issues, driver issues, presence/absence of an audio interface, interface settings, Sonar settings, plugin latency, ... Please elaborate on situations where you are experiencing latency problems: 1. All projects, or certain projects? 2. Does the latency go away if you toggle effects off, by hitting the 'E' key on your computer keyboard? (you can turn them back on by hitting 'E' again). 3. What are your current settings for: Audio interface Sample Rate and ASIO Buffer Size, and Sonar Sample Rate, Driver Mode, Record Bit Depth, and what is the current reported Sonar Total Roundtrip Latency? Let's start with the above - I look forward to diving into this with you, as your computer looks like it should be able to cruise along nicely, we should just have to ferret out the causes of your current latency and make some adjustments. A couple of thoughts: I suggest trying the following settings, as a reasonable starting point: Audio Interface - Sample Rate of 48 k, ASIO Buffer Size of 128. Sonar: Driver Mode ASIO, Sample Rate 48 k, Record Bit Depth of 24 Bits. I always recommend that for recording purposes (it is different for mixing/mastering), that you try to get the settings to the point of Sonar reporting a Total Roundtrip Latency of around 10 milliseconds, or just under that a little bit. (when you finish recording and move on to mixing/mastering, you will likely need to bump that ASIO Buffer Size way up to as high as 1024, due to expected latency from some mixing and mastering plugins that by design induce lots of latency to do what they do. That's OK during mixing/mastering, but not for recording, where you need a low latency to properly be able to record without lag). SOOOOOO, I would ask that after you respond to my earlier requests for information, that you go ahead and get things set to my recommendations, and then try them out in a new project, where you do some recording of midi and audio, but don't yet add effects - to see how the basic processof tracking is working at those settings. IF all is well, you can expand the test to introduce some plugins, BUT make sure you understand if any particular plugin you want to use is going to spike your latency or not, prior to adding them. Certain plugins, such as Perfect Space and Boost 11 (and there are more). I will check back on this post throughout the day, and will do my best to help you get this all squared away. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 10:41:12
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Axeman49 I upgraded to a new machine and windows and sonar X3e are at 64bits. Now I have a big latency problem. Anyone have any thoughts on this............. ?
Latency comes from two sources: - Audio Interface
- Any latent plugins inserted anywhere in the project
You can change the ASIO buffer size of your audio interface to adjust the amount of latency. Smaller buffer sizes = lower latency The only caveat is the machine has to be able to sustain the load. If you're are using "Mastering", "Linear Phase", or Convolution based plugins (which typically add additional latency), all other audio is delayed by an equal amount to maintain sample-accurate sync. ie: If you've got a Linear Phase EQ inserted on a guitar track (say it adds 50ms latency)... and you go to over-dub a vocal track, the vocal track will be delayed by 50ms. You can circumvent this in two ways: - Don't use latent plugins while tracking. Remove the plugin... and the additional latency is gone.
- Use Sonar's global PDC disable button (plugin delay compensation - located in the Control Bar) to temporarily disable PDC.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 13:40:10
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Jim - I would like to add to your list of where latency comes from - external to Sonar, background services / device drivers can also spike latency, such as Wi-Fi adapters, some antivirus software, even laptop battery management - these can all wreak havoc on latency. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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scook
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 13:48:35
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I don't understand how these external processes directly the affect latency. How do these processes slow the audio signal?
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slartabartfast
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 13:49:12
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robert_e_bone Jim - I would like to add to your list of where latency comes from - external to Sonar, background services / device drivers can also spike latency, such as Wi-Fi adapters, some antivirus software, even laptop battery management - these can all wreak havoc on latency. Bob Bone
Jim R. is right. Most of the other things that screw up audio processing do not manifest as latency (the lag time from an input to a processed output), but rather as dropouts (distortion due to interruption of the audio stream) or in severe cases stalling of the processing altogether. Although these problems may require you to set an unacceptably high buffer to avoid distortion, it is the high buffer that is the cause of the latency in those cases.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2014/06/04 13:57:50
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 14:16:04
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robert_e_bone Jim - I would like to add to your list of where latency comes from - external to Sonar, background services / device drivers can also spike latency, such as Wi-Fi adapters, some antivirus software, even laptop battery management - these can all wreak havoc on latency.
Hi Bob, We're talking about two completely different things.  - I'm talking Audio Latency
- You're talking DPC Latency
You're right that many factors can affect DPC Latency. To effectively run heavy loads at low Audio Latency... your DAW needs low/consistent DPC Latency.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 14:22:28
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scook I don't understand how these external processes directly the affect latency. How do these processes slow the audio signal?
Bob is talking about DPC Latency. Your DAW does need low/consistent DPC Latency to effectively run heavy loads at low Audio Latency settings. DPC Latency spikes affect the data flow... which would manifest as glitches (at best) and drop-outs (at worst). DPC Latency spikes themselves don't determine audio latency... but they can affect performance at a given latency setting. Assuming substantial load, the lower your audio latency... the more critical it is to have low/consistent DPC Latency. Hope that sheds some light...
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scook
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 14:28:03
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I understood your reply to Bob. Things get confused when using terms like latency without context. The original post and title are not clear so we are all left guessing until the original poster decides to reply.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 14:41:52
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I respectfully disagree. DPC Latency spikes (DPC means Deferred Procedure Call, by the way) can and do occur outside of Sonar, even if their occurrence is only noticed from within Sonar, per some of the things I listed in my earlier post. I did not say and am not saying Jim was wrong. I only added those items to his list, because they too can cause latency issues that manifest themselves in several ways within Sonar. The original poster indicated problems with 'latency', and did not specify whether or not that meant specifically a 'lag', versus other types of issues with latency, such as dropouts/crackles/distortion. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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scook
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 14:47:27
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Does this mean you believe the original post and title have a clear meaning, you are not guessing and the original poster need not reply?
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 15:06:56
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scook - apologies - I am not understanding your questions very well. (and now I know why). I just removed a giant bunch of text from this reply, because while I had been typing my response to what slartabartfast had posted, Jim and then you had posted, but I had not seen those yet, because I was typing my 'I disagree' post - to slartabartfast's post. Sooooo, when I had finished typing and hit Submit Post, Jim's post and then yours appeared in between, and I never saw them. Sooooooooooooo, you took my 'respectfully disagree' to mean me disagreeing with YOUR post, when in fact I was disagreeing (respectfully, nonetheless) with an EARLIER post by someone else. S0000oooo, I do NOT disagree with you, Jim also cleared up what he was referring to (audio latency), versus my points, (DPC Latency), and I DO agree that nobody can help the original poster until he explains more about the nature of the issues, AND provides more information about his system and current settings, as well as things loaded into his project and all of that. Sooooooooooo - we cool??????? Bob Bone :)
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/04 15:10:24
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And Jim, Yes, I completely agree with your further explanation. We were indeed talking about 2 different flavors of latency. My post was only due to your not specifying audio latency versus latency in general, so I added the DPC latency pieces to it. And, as noted moments ago in my just-posted response to scook, ALL of us agree that the original poster was not at all clear, and that we all need additional information in order to help him. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Axeman49
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/05 02:18:45
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Thanks everyone. I switched to ASIO as opposed to WDM/KS and it seems to have helped allot. Does everyone hear prefer ASIO ? Also I seem to have some software synths cutting off notes during playback. Any suggestions? Thanks again, dan
after all else is exhausted, read the instructions...... Intel i7 3.40 12 Gig Ram M-Audio Delta 66 and 410 4 Terabyte of HD space SATA. GeForce GTX 550 Ti Windows 7 Pro SP 1
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Splat
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/05 02:50:55
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Everybody prefers ASIO. Increase the MIDI buffer in preferences and then you are laughing...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/05 08:39:06
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Yeah, notes can randomly not play and such, with the 'new' default of 250. It used to be 500, and lots of folks have adjusted that back to 500, with good results. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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mettelus
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Re: Now at 64bit, now a big latency problem...............................
2014/06/05 20:00:10
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If you shifted O/S', please ensure you have updated (64-bit) drivers for that system and all associated hardware. Another thing to check is Microsoft's hardware compatibility listing, as some hardware may no longer be supported in the "jump" to 64-bit.
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