Indyman
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/11 20:50:52
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Thanks everyone - interesting responses. Seems the consensus is the flexibility that digital provides far outweighs any supposed sonic advantage provided by the tape medium. How much time we used to spend doing things that are now so simply done on a computer. Shows how far we have come with our new tools. I had forgotten about the "album art" aspect though (thanks Bob Bone!) - as I recall double albums also came in handy for "deseeding" purposes :) By the way, the Otari went up for auction yesterday. Sold in 4 hours. I assume they already have the head cleaner, demagnetizer, isopropyl alcohol, splicing tape, empty reels, cotton swabs - - - and tape.
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Splat 
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/11 21:21:03
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Technically no, I'm glad tape is mostly dead.
Only one thing I miss....
When you rewound the tape you sometimes had time to have a conversation with the band and have a little break, it felt more civilized.
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stevec
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/11 23:29:31
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robert_e_bone
I would say that the ONE thing about that whole era I TRULY miss with all my heart and soul is 'Album Art'. I spent MANY evenings lost under the headphones while quite stoned, staring deeply into the beautiful imagery of Roger Dean and listening to Yes or Jon Anderson's Olias of Sunhillow.
Wow... spot on, Bob. In fact, I still have them all (including Olias) on vinyl. 
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/11 23:32:46
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As a hobbiest, my tape experience was not with reel to reel, just a Fostex 4 track cassette prota-studio. I had fun, but would never want to go back. As I was sequencing using harware synths and drum machiens one track was lost to the sync track effectivly leaving three tracks for recording and bouncing.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/11 23:46:36
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I think if anything I am glad I lived through the tape era because it makes recording with the tools we now have sooooo easy. Not a day goes by that I am not thinking about how any given task would have taken day's and day's and $$$$ for the materials needed. It is so frigging cheap now we are spoiled beyond reason. I don't want to hear any whining from you young whipper snappers now.
Every time the world of computers screws up I curse it because of the wasted time sorting things out, but most of this is my time and rarely costs anything in the way of cash but, that said, when your tape machine screwed up it was $$$$$. And you really did have to know what the f your were doing.
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tecknot
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 00:05:31
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About using tape, I had a better feel of control. In SONAR I can't really slow down the playback or swing the tape across the heads manually. Although the digital realm gives us unbelievable options and abilities, back then you had to be more creative or inventive at times. And that lent itself to discoveries of technique and sound. So, even though it was a challenge, it was also rewarding...More so, because it was something you actually did (physically) as opposed to clicking and dragging and the like in an interface. It was like you actually made something in the process of recording and mixing. That made it fun.
Kind regards,
tecknot
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elsongs
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 03:10:21
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Those who clamor for the superiority of tape are nothing but elitists. The most I can afford would probably be an 8-track machine. Yes, there is something to be said about analog warmth, but everything else is just nostalgia and a way to feel superior to everyone else. There's no way I could record the music I want to with just 8 tracks.
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John
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 03:28:08
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tecknot
About using tape, I had a better feel of control. In SONAR I can't really slow down the playback or swing the tape across the heads manually. Although the digital realm gives us unbelievable options and abilities, back then you had to be more creative or inventive at times. And that lent itself to discoveries of technique and sound. So, even though it was a challenge, it was also rewarding...More so, because it was something you actually did (physically) as opposed to clicking and dragging and the like in an interface. It was like you actually made something in the process of recording and mixing. That made it fun.
Kind regards,
tecknot
Ever tried scrubbing? With a Mackie Control it works nicely.
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WDI
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 05:22:00
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I still use a Tascam MSR24 because of the sound and it's only a 1". For me there definitely is a big difference in sound of tape being superior. As far as hiss, it has Dolby and I don't hear hiss especially with all the other noise introduced like a guitar amp, preamps or microphone etc. And certain things seem easier and more strait forward recording to tape. I mean, your not going to be tweaking a performance after the fact. Either it's a good performance or its not.
That being said, a good performance or song or what ever is still good wether it's tape or digital and I enjoy a lot of the computer tools and recording.
Oh, and the whole razor blade thing? I never did it. If it's bad, do it again.
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mudgel
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 11:12:10
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I'm glad I got an appreciation for the technology and process during the tape days. It makes me more tolerant. About today's digital technology especially when something goes wrong with software. But do I want to go back to tape. No way, no thanks!
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bandso
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 13:11:57
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For those of us that miss working in the tape environment: I think we just need a VST to emulate the usage of tape (not the sound of tape, as we already have that.) When you press play on your DAW, it first makes the whirl up sound of a large format tape machine getting up to speed before your tracks play and then a whirl down once you press stop. Once every 50 to 100 takes it randomly makes the sound of tape breaking (flap flap flap) and repeats this sound over and over until you hit stop....Ah the good ole' days, how I miss them...
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musicroom
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 14:34:46
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Anderton
I miss absolutely nothing about tape.
Craig, I remember reading one of your books with what i think I remember was a picture of a reel to reel machine on the cover. That book really helped!! Thank you for that! Regardless of how much I love digital and wouldn't go back now for a lot of reasons - I did love the excitement of that time. There was so much to learn to get to a certain confidence level. A lot of MacGyver like circumstances to create in order to accomplish repeatable results on a small fortune budget at the time. I cut my teeth there and actually feel bad for people who never got to experience that feeling of knowing you were one of a few that had the privilege of recording quality material in a home studio. Learning and using smpte for midi sync to tape was also fun at the time. Living that and being thankful for my small studio is why I might be quick to raise my eyebrows at folks who complain about the smallest of troubles in the daw world. IE, going off on the density of coloring tracks and so forth. Most do not appreciate how much effort and finances it used to take to only have a fraction of the tools we have now. Sound wise, I do like the sound of tape the best especially if you don't use some of the new plugs or daws that do a good job of emulating that sound. From cake's console module to a number of other character coloring based plugs - I can get really close to that rich warm sound now. And my favorite thing about daw recording given I have a strong recorded track, has to be the simplest of all things - I like seeing what I'm editing!! That one thing alone would pull me into daw recording over tape.
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stevec
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 14:47:08
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musicroom
...And my favorite thing about daw recording given I have a strong recorded track, has to be the simplest of all things - I like seeing what I'm editing!! That one thing alone would pull me into daw recording over tape.
A big ole' +1 here. I've always been strong on visual representations.
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...wicked
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 14:54:34
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The thing I miss about tape is that it was a known quantity. Take it to another machine and thread it up and you're off and running. No plugins that don't load, no antiquated operating systems or other minute horse-dung that'll stop the show. As long as you know how to rock the reels and make a splice your'e good to go.
Of course, that going was a lot slower than it is with a fully-functioning DAW...but whose DAW is "fully" functioning?
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djwayne
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 15:07:50
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Anybody wanna buy a DA-88 ?? The worst of both worlds...digital tape !!
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stevec
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 16:30:20
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I have some tape in my kitchen drawer. Maybe I can put it on Ebay...
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wst3
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 16:51:42
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I don't miss tape because I still have a 2" 16 track at my disposal.
There are a LOT of things I miss about the era, some of which are directly related to tape, all of which were probably already mentioned:
1) I miss the discipline that tape enforced... you did not make edits unless you really needed to, you did not keep every take, sometimes you had to commit to specific effects or bounce-downs... all of which had the effect of making you think, a lot sometimes, about what you were doing. And yes, I think that it could lead to better output.
2) I miss the time it afforded - you had to wait while the tape was loaded, you had to wait for rewinds, and so on. And in that time you had time to chat.
3) I do miss showing off - window edits, spot erasing... this could really make folks nervous.
4) for whatever reason, I miss sitting back with my feet on the console watching the reels spin while listening to that "final" mix.
5) I do miss being able to fix whatever went wrong... my JH16 has no microprocessors!!!
6) more than anything, I really miss people learning to LISTEN to their edits. I've watched folks make edits based solely on the visual representation on the screen, and as often as not, maybe even more often, those edits do not sound as good as they could... if only the person had really listened. In fairness, there are no software tools that I've used that provide a true equivalent to audible scrubbing, although I am getting better at using the available tools...
7) while there are computer based studios that still have enough space for a band, I miss working with bands, because my current place doesn't really have the space. But that's more a matter of economics than just the presence of a washing machine sized tape deck.
I do not miss transports eating tape. I do not miss cleaning them, I am on the fence about aligning them - there was a certain peacefulness that came with completing the job. I do not miss the space they take up, or the cost of tape, and of course the noise and other audible artifacts are gone, and everyone one likes that.
In the balance I'm quite happy to have the tools I have, but we did lose something in the transition.
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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ampfixer
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 18:02:16
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/05/16 17:11:04
My feelings about tape are very similar to my feelings about film cameras. Tape machines and good cameras were an investment that told people you were serious. It wasn't disposable junk. You cared for it and you appreciated the engineering and people that created it.
Today everyone with an iphone is a photographer, and everyone with a DAW in their basement has a studio. The art and science has been stripped away from photography. I can't get good black and white pictures with the best digital camera I own and I still use my tascam 4 track as part of my mix process. I mix from Sonar to stereo tape and then make the final 2 track in Sonar using the tape as a source. My kind will die off in the next 20 years and at some point it will all be ancient history.
But then again, when I was a teenager I built my own telescope and ground the mirror by hand.
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Sacalait
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 18:19:43
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I can't say I miss tape but it certainly had it's own mojo. I still have a bunch of it from a Fostex machine I used in my brother's studio back in the late '80's through early '90's. Would live to find a machine to bring some of this stuff into my digital world!
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CL2Zero
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 18:42:10
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This may sound odd.
What I miss the most about tape is the smell.
I always kept the tapes tails out. (Tascam MS-16, 16 track, 1 inch machine)
So, if you were getting ready to work on something you had to rewind it.
When the reels got up to speed the air moving would waft that tape smell right up in your face.
I LIKE it. That is what I miss the most. My Tascam 32, 1/4 inch 2 track just doesn't quite do it.
I still use two Tascam DA-38s and two Alesis ADAT XT-20s.
I use them when I feel nostalgic.
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Anderton
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 20:21:02
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...wicked
The thing I miss about tape is that it was a known quantity. Take it to another machine and thread it up and you're off and running. No plugins that don't load, no antiquated operating systems or other minute horse-dung that'll stop the show. As long as you know how to rock the reels and make a splice your'e good to go.
That was pretty much true with 2" 24-track, but for a while there were multiple formats, like 16-track...I did some recording at Apostolic Studios in New York, and it was 12-track. Zappa did a lot of work there too. Then there were the Stevens 40-track machines, Otaris that used 1 inch... Nor was there any guarantee that the recorders were aligned similarly. These days, exporting a project as WAV of AIFF files seems like the most bulletproof way to work among different studios. But different project files with plug-ins and such? No way. It's a jungle out there.
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John
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 21:00:34
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CL2Zero
This may sound odd.
What I miss the most about tape is the smell.
I always kept the tapes tails out. (Tascam MS-16, 16 track, 1 inch machine)
So, if you were getting ready to work on something you had to rewind it.
When the reels got up to speed the air moving would waft that tape smell right up in your face.
I LIKE it. That is what I miss the most. My Tascam 32, 1/4 inch 2 track just doesn't quite do it.
I still use two Tascam DA-38s and two Alesis ADAT XT-20s.
I use them when I feel nostalgic.
So you're saying you like the smell of rust?
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Geo524
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 21:19:22
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Head alignments, constant preventative maintenance and the cost of a 1" reel of Ampex 456... NOPE! 
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CL2Zero
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 22:41:20
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John
CL2Zero
This may sound odd.
What I miss the most about tape is the smell.
I always kept the tapes tails out. (Tascam MS-16, 16 track, 1 inch machine)
So, if you were getting ready to work on something you had to rewind it.
When the reels got up to speed the air moving would waft that tape smell right up in your face.
I LIKE it. That is what I miss the most. My Tascam 32, 1/4 inch 2 track just doesn't quite do it.
I still use two Tascam DA-38s and two Alesis ADAT XT-20s.
I use them when I feel nostalgic.
So you're saying you like the smell of rust?
Nope! Tape had its own smell that can't be explained, I guess. But, I definitely miss it.
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John
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/12 22:52:16
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CL2Zero
John
CL2Zero
This may sound odd.
What I miss the most about tape is the smell.
I always kept the tapes tails out. (Tascam MS-16, 16 track, 1 inch machine)
So, if you were getting ready to work on something you had to rewind it.
When the reels got up to speed the air moving would waft that tape smell right up in your face.
I LIKE it. That is what I miss the most. My Tascam 32, 1/4 inch 2 track just doesn't quite do it.
I still use two Tascam DA-38s and two Alesis ADAT XT-20s.
I use them when I feel nostalgic.
So you're saying you like the smell of rust?
Nope!
Tape had its own smell that can't be explained, I guess.
But, I definitely miss it.
That was a joke.
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Sidroe
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/13 08:11:20
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I will never forget going to a close friends house to see his new backyard studio. A very nice building about the size of a 4 car garage. He built it from the ground up himself and spent a lot of time and blood sweat and tears on it. We stood basking in the glory of his accomplishment having a discussion about digital versus analog recording before we entered his dream come true. We walked in to the control room and he plopped down into the chair at the console and hit the play button. Music blasted thru the monitors and our hair was blowing in the wind! After deafening us both for about 5 minutes he looked at me and said, " YOU JUST CAN'T BEAT THE SOUND OF TAPE!" At which time he directed my attention to......... 3 Tascam DA88s! I had to go outside to keep from hurting his feelings, I was laughing so hard I pulled something in my stomach.
Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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musec03
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/13 11:58:42
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My simple answer ...NO.
If I want to record analog ...I'll hire a person who loves to work with it.
It is a most favorable "sound" ...yet ...I'm cool with digital these days and most likely until I have no more days.
God Bless OTARI, et al... R.I.P.
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RogerH
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/13 13:46:36
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Sidroe
I will never forget going to a close friends house to see his new backyard studio. A very nice building about the size of a 4 car garage. He built it from the ground up himself and spent a lot of time and blood sweat and tears on it. We stood basking in the glory of his accomplishment having a discussion about digital versus analog recording before we entered his dream come true. We walked in to the control room and he plopped down into the chair at the console and hit the play button. Music blasted thru the monitors and our hair was blowing in the wind! After deafening us both for about 5 minutes he looked at me and said, " YOU JUST CAN'T BEAT THE SOUND OF TAPE!" At which time he directed my attention to......... 3 Tascam DA88s! I had to go outside to keep from hurting his feelings, I was laughing so hard I pulled something in my stomach.
Epic! LOL
A song from my band: Terramater My soundcloud pageSonar Platinum Windows 7 Professional (SP1) 64Bit Intel Core i7 Quad Processor i7-2600K 3,4GHz MSI P67A-C45 (MOBO) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 8GB CL9 (2x4GB) Seagate Barracuda® 7200.12 1TB Seagate Barracuda® XT 2TB
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RogerH
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/13 13:56:16
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One thing about this world of DAW's is that you don't need to take any decisions. You can always undo, add another track or tweak things ...
I believe that this may hurt the music a bit
A song from my band: Terramater My soundcloud pageSonar Platinum Windows 7 Professional (SP1) 64Bit Intel Core i7 Quad Processor i7-2600K 3,4GHz MSI P67A-C45 (MOBO) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 8GB CL9 (2x4GB) Seagate Barracuda® 7200.12 1TB Seagate Barracuda® XT 2TB
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StarTekh
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Re: Now that we have all these great tools like SONAR, does anyone miss working with tape?
2014/05/13 14:24:14
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Indyman : To-date top recording studios still use tape ..live drums sound much better recorded to tape then transferd to digital.. tape is now 400.00 or more a roll ... nothing for a top act ..to pay. If you want the Ray Charles ..Cleo Lain ..Summertime ..sound your going to need all the right tools... so yes I miss my Mx-80 !
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