ecamburn
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OT: Alone in the wilderness
I saw this great movie today on pbs called alone in the wilderness. It was made in 1968 and it's a documentary about a guy who lived alone in the wilderness in Alaska for a year. Much of the movie details this buy building the log cabin that got him through the alaskan winter. this guy is the extreme do it your selfer. One example - he brought along all his own tools, but he only brought the heads of the tools and he made the handles himself. He made hinges for the cabin door out of wood. I dug the movie and would highly recommend it, but I also drew a parallel to home recording. Yeah, it's not as extreme as this guy, but many of us compose, play, edit, mix and master and basically take something from idea to finished product. I could definitely see some similarities.
eric,
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harmony gardens
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/11 19:22:42
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Hi Eric,,, I saw it, too. Did you donate to PBS?? lol
I bet you'd love the movie Jerimiah Johnson.
It's hard to compair DAW's to wilderness survival in the extremes of an Alaska winter, but I do often feel there are definately coralaries between DAW's and building. Thank goodness that if i dont' get all my loop points lined up by a certain point, I won't freeze to death. lol
BTW, we should see about a Madison area Cakewalk users group.
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ecamburn
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/11 21:13:30
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Hey Dale:
I think the Madison area user's group might be you and me. Maybe there's some sonar folks around here too. We could meet up in spring green. That's about half way between here and there.
Eric
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crabtwins
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/11 21:25:57
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When I move back to Milwaukee next year, maybe Ill stop in!
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Fred S
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/11 21:46:42
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Hey Eric, thanks, I'll have to watch for it. Just been watching PBS as well....Andre Rieu in Dublin. What a pleasure listening to him and his orchestra  Found out he'll be here in Sacramento CA (about 30 minutes from me) on December 1st...$1,000 for 2 premium seats, $250 for the nose bleeds! Wish I had $1,000 I didn't need.
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harmony gardens
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/11 21:56:48
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I think the Madison area user's group might be you and me. Maybe there's some sonar folks around here too. We could meet up in spring green. That's about half way between here and there. It's not the numbers it's the quality, right?? lol That would still be cool. There HAS to be a few others. And we got crabtwins coming. Spring Green is cool, too.
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oroboros
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 05:02:38
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I saw that show too, about 6 months ago, awesome. They don't build guys like that anymore. A great example of how modern life is not always better. There's also a sequel, but it's not half as good, unfortunately.
To think, at one time P5 was a $429 MSRP app. I think that technology and music has always been together, and I think music is science, anyway. - Vangelis The Other P5 Forum
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b rock
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 10:00:47
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this guy is the extreme do it your selfer. One example - he brought along all his own tools, but he only brought the heads of the tools and he made the handles himself. He made hinges for the cabin door out of wood. I really don't see what the big deal is here. Doesn't everyone? I'm sure that our Canadian friends go through this routine on a yearly basis. For one thing, he had no worries about central AC. And it's not like this guy is a *STAR* on PBS. Like Dr. Wayne Dyer, Dennis DeYoung (just ask him!), or that English fellow that does the voiceover for the WWII archive footage. You want challenging? Try building an ark without a cubit tape measure.
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ecamburn
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 18:13:16
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ORIGINAL: b rock
Dennis DeYoung
A lot of people asked for their contributions back after that one. Mr. Roboto with a full symphony orchestra. What could they have been thinking about? Eric
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agincourtdb
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 18:22:12
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Anyone that would give up all human contact and live in the wilderness has a serious antisocial mental problem, if you ask me. Of course, this particular gentleman is getting contact with the camera crew, so he's cheating. Otherwise, what's he trying to prove?  Now, give me a cabin in the wilderness with Adriana Lima..... 
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lawapa
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 19:38:56
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As I understand it the original documentary done in the 60's did not have a camera crew. He went to the Alaskan wilderness as a climber would conquer a mountain because it's there. Few places on this earth are as extreme as this. And yet it is possible to brave it and to succeed. As we move toward civilization where we are ever dependent on others and modern technology to brave this extreme situation on your own at the cost of your life as our fore fathers did is indeed quite a feat.
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agincourtdb
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 20:01:15
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ORIGINAL: lawapa
As I understand it the original documentary done in the 60's did not have a camera crew. He went to the Alaskan wilderness as a climber would conquer a mountain because it's there. Few places on this earth are as extreme as this. And yet it is possible to brave it and to succeed. As we move toward civilization where we are ever dependent on others and modern technology to brave this extreme situation on your own at the cost of your life as our fore fathers did is indeed quite a feat.
...and also quite unnecessary and even foolhardy :-) Instead of 'proving something' for his own machismo, can you imagine how much good he could have done if all that effort had been aimed at helping others?
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xenohazard
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 20:05:58
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Lets not forget that this was normal daily life in the not to distant past. Our fathers and/or grandfathers lived it and remember it. We who live in the last half of the 20th century have seen humanity transported into the Star Trek era and it is easy to to take modern life for granted. This primitive existence is still a reality for many who don't live in our sheltered society. I am truely thankfull for the oppertunity to sit in front of my computer an comfortably play around with P5 and all the hardware/software that goes with it.
Long Live P5
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agincourtdb
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 20:19:07
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my father was an electrical engineer for IBM... he didn't know from handmade tools and the alaskan wilderness. Alone in the wilderness has never been the normal human lifestyle. We've been in family/clan groups since we were apes. 
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oroboros
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 20:32:37
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He filmed it all himself (like Survivorman, minus the BS), and took nature photos, which he sold to nature magazines, in order to support himself, for things he couldn't produce locally (salt, spices, film, etc.). Perhaps taking photos of pristine nature isn't concidered "helping others" to you, but others would disagree.
Why climb Mt. Everest? Why go to the moon? Why sail to the new world? Why create music? Why paint a new mural? Your version of exploration is not the only "right" kind that exists in this world. I doubt this guy's selfish reasons for living in Alaska were any less justified than anyone here's selfish reasons for making music. Why waste time creating music, when you could be handing out food at a soup kitchen? And if you'd actually seen the show, you'd realize that "macho" is probably the last thing this guy was or ever wanted to be. Humble and self-sufficient, more like. Very much unlike the spoiled people of today.
To think, at one time P5 was a $429 MSRP app. I think that technology and music has always been together, and I think music is science, anyway. - Vangelis The Other P5 Forum
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ecamburn
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 21:22:33
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ORIGINAL: agincourtdb
Alone in the wilderness has never been the normal human lifestyle. We've been in family/clan groups since we were apes.
True enough, but I think part of the point is that alienation from the resources one needs to live has **not** been characteristic of human existence until relatively recently. So it wasn't just the fact that this guy was alone. But rather, he was responsible for producing everything he needed to survive. He certainly could have done that within some sort of social group. Eric,
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lawapa
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/12 22:34:44
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...and also quite unnecessary and even foolhardy :-) Instead of 'proving something' for his own machismo, can you imagine how much good he could have done if all that effort had been aimed at helping others? When we climbed down from the protection of the trees we formed groups for protection. When we moved to farming to sustain our needs we formed communities. When wealth eased our burdens we tuned to science and the arts. As we controlled our environment to a much greater degree and harnessed the land and resources to better sustain our larger cities we began to explore the within. In some measure the absolute is always unattainable. BUT WE SEEK IT JUST THE SAME. From within or out you are alone with it each and every day. This pursuit/drive/unquenchable thirst drives men to do things. It's why we have computers now and the hydrogen bomb. We as a species did quite well without either of those tools. But to move forward and to satisfy a need we will continue down this path. But the greater struggle is always within. and to conquer our fear is a great achievement. No, Olympic record was ever broke to satisfy logic. Or the group as a whole. This is done to feed that inner need. For something greater than the group or ourselves. Great art has embraced this struggle for the sprit of a Jack London adventure. And man would never have set out to solve anything without this driving force. For with it comes our trip to the moon. As the world laughed-it's flat you'll fall off the edge.
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agincourtdb
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/13 00:23:59
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The 'inner need' is what I'm talking about... the need for social interaction is, in a normal person, far stronger than any need to isolate oneself for any philosophical purpose or essentially narcissistic 'personal challenge'. And anyway, I was reacting to how it was originally described, It was made in 1968 and it's a documentary about a guy who lived alone in the wilderness in Alaska for a year. Much of the movie details this buy building the log cabin that got him through the alaskan winter. this guy is the extreme do it your selfer. One example - he brought along all his own tools, but he only brought the heads of the tools and he made the handles himself. He made hinges for the cabin door out of wood. ...which is quite a bit different from how it turns out to be... He filmed it all himself (like Survivorman, minus the BS), and took nature photos, which he sold to nature magazines, in order to support himself, for things he couldn't produce locally (salt, spices, film, etc.). .....so originally it was made out to sound like a guy who leaves civilization behind and goes off to live in the wilderness. Now it seems he's a nature photographer and not a hermit. So.... okay, whatever floats his boat. I still say he's a bit off his nut. Anyway, I'll take a society working together to manage resources for the use of all, over the never-ending backbreaking labor and early (and often violent) death of living 'close to the land' any day. We may become frustrated with the inconveniences of modern existence, but most people wouldn't last a week out in the wilderness, and there's a reason for that. There's nothing romantic about nature red in tooth and claw. It just is, and it'll kill you without a second's thought.
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wrench45us
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/13 08:19:00
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b rock
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/13 09:11:32
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Anyway, I'll take a society working together to manage resources for the use of all And when you find that society, Dave, let me know. I want to move there. While we're throwing out book titles, let me contribute Exploring the Crack in the Cosmic Egg, by Josph Chilton Pierce. Not as "out-there" as the title might suggest, but a deep, thoughtful exploration of how culture manages to carve a deep divide between the real world and our perception of it. There's no permanent escape from that, because we are the process. But there needs to be the lone riders out there 'exploring the cracks'. Edit:Like some who rebel against proper typing technique. 
post edited by b rock - 2006/03/13 09:19:52
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harmony gardens
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/13 14:39:45
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The man is definately unique, in wanting to do this, but I would never call him crazy. I would say he was someone who was tremendously resourceful, who had the courage to follow his inner voice. The value of his expirience is to show it can be done, and to help people understand how much work life would be, without all our modern conveniences. While I enjoy all the wonders of modern life, I try to never forget that I'm on a beautiful planet, which has it's own ways.
He pays homage to those who had the forsight to save such places for future generations. People like John Muir, Aldo Leopold, and Teddy Roosevelt left us a great gift. This man was on a similar path, IMHO. He's not a nut, he's a unique individual who did what he dreamed of doing. He did this simply for the expirence, and not to hide from society with his guns, and ship hidden bombs to scientists who he felt were ruining the world,,, now that's a nut.
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agincourtdb
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/13 15:09:04
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ORIGINAL: b rock
Anyway, I'll take a society working together to manage resources for the use of all
And when you find that society, Dave, let me know. I want to move there. Look around you ... where does your potable water come from? The fuel for your heat? The food you buy at the supermarket? The production of all of these things benefits from economies of scale and would be available to fewer people in direct proportion to the 'closeness to the land,' so to speak... Still other things wouldn't be available at all. Modern medicine, anything that runs on electricity (unless you're willing to become a smith and an electrician in the copious spare time you have from growing food 12 hours a day. And forget about modern hybrid grains that can feed more people, because they never would have been developed.... science is a pie-in-the-sky luxury when you live 'close to the land'. I'll say it again.... lives before modern organizational society were mostly nasty, brutal and short. But hey, I'm off on a tangent, having misunderstood the gist of the original post, so, just ignore me.
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b rock
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RE: OT: Alone in the wilderness
2006/03/13 15:39:40
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The production of all of these things benefits from economies of scale In total agreement here. Societal structure is a necessary 'evil'. I'm a bit of the exception here, because my water comes from a well (dependent on diesel fuel), I grow food for 'barter' in a sense, and and my heating comes from the Sun. But I must admit to an entrenched electricity addiction; more so after having experienced lengthy periods on a yearly basis with none. Yes, I need the infrastructure to exist. I guess that the 'society' crack of mine was based on the disproportionate amount of 'resources' that get distributed, depending on circumstances and your position in the hierarchy. My point was that society is absolutely necessary to maintain some semblence of productivity and order, and keep the world [humankind] from plunging into *total* chaos. What you see going on now around the globe is just an attempt to shift around the table setting. "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss." But I'm afraid that in it's quest to maintain itself, society at large sacrifices creative thought and 'renegade' existence for a stable sameness. Without the illusion of prediction & control (and it *is* an illusion), the whole game falls apart. That's why we need someone to occasionally peek outside the 'box', and let the rest of us know that there's more to the world than our narrow perception of it. I'm off on a tangent, having misunderstood the gist of the original post, so, just ignore me. Ditto. But that's what makes P5 (the forum) P5, doesn't it?
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