stickman393
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OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
This is a little off-topic, but it might be of interest to those folks who are interested in the reaction of long-time Sonar users to the changes in SONAR X1. Final Cut X - Professional Users Outcry I think there are a lot of parallels.
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eternal85
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 11:58:55
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"Professional editors should (1) learn to tell what’s really missing from what’s just been moved around, (2) recognize that there’s no obligation to switch from the old program yet, (3) monitor the progress of FCP X and its ecosystem, and especially (4) be willing to consider that a radical new design may be unfamiliar, but may, in the long term, actually be better."
Sounds like advice that applies to X1 as well.
I happen to really like X1 and will continue to support its changes
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JClosed
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 12:02:55
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I can only agree with that...
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lavoll
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 15:35:22
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new in final cut pro x: a pitch corrector
i thoght that was kinda... strange..but probably useful to some video editors..? special fx?
sonar x1b, win 7, 12gig ram, 6gb ssd, i7 Hexa Processor i7-970, lynx aurora
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sykodelic
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 16:27:28
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"Professional editors should (1) learn to tell what’s really missing from what’s just been moved around, (2) recognize that there’s no obligation to switch from the old program yet, (3) monitor the progress of FCP X and its ecosystem, and especially (4) be willing to consider that a radical new design may be unfamiliar, but may, in the long term, actually be better."
Sounds like advice that applies to X1 as well.
I happen to really like X1 and will continue to support its changes
+1
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javahut
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 18:51:36
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I guess we'll find out before the end of the year if "expanding on what you might expect from SONAR and breaking from tradition to make SONAR X1 very simpl(e)y the best DAW in the industry" will have a similar effect.
And if you happen to like the changes from 8.5 to X1... just imagine what it would be like if in X2, Cakewalk moves and changes as many functions as they did from 8.5 to X1. Would you like it if most of what you learned about Sonar X1 in the past year was no longer applicable in X2? And if they did that every year from now on?
I still honestly don't see the big improvement in work flow. X1 doesn't do much if anything more than 8.5 did. It's just different... and in some ways more limiting (especially regarding envelope automation).
But I digress.
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sykodelic
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 19:10:50
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Would you like it if most of what you learned about Sonar X1 in the past year was no longer applicable in X2? And if they did that every year from now on?
I highly doubt this will be the case.
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javahut
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 19:16:36
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No, but it may give you an idea of how long time users felt about the changes from 8.5 to X1. Let's say, just for grins, they went from X1 to... Sonar X2
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sykodelic
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 19:34:09
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Let's say, just for grins, they went from X1 to... Sonar X2 that is wicked cool actually......
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jayson
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 21:24:47
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javahut
Let's say, just for grins, they went from X1 to... Sonar X2
Wow ... just ... wow! Cheers, jayson
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javahut
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 21:39:59
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sykodelic
Let's say, just for grins, they went from X1 to... Sonar X2
that is wicked cool actually......
It may be wicked cool... but I'm not ready to take it on as a primary method to make music. And I'm not sure the results of music made with it would be something I'd like to listen to long term. Right now, what he's making with it might sound good for... oh.. I don't know... a 30 second car commercial or something. It's squashed, it's loud, and it sounds like a machine. Not sure I would agree with his suggestion that it would ever "feel like playing an actual instrument".
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windsurfer25x
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 21:40:13
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sykodelic
Let's say, just for grins, they went from X1 to... Sonar X2
that is wicked cool actually......
Very COOL
Sonar X1 Expanded PE 64 bit
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Glennbo 
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 21:50:04
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AT
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 23:07:50
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Obviously Apple doesn't care about their customer base. They are going for those who edit their kid's videos, not professionals. Steven Jobs doesn't care, anymore, not like he used to. Anybody that has anything positive to say about change, well the less said about them the better. A cleaner look is for dummies, although the pro editors can't be bothered to learn where all the good all stuff has been stuffed. And no doubt the new Final cut is flakey too, although no one else can replicate the faults the pros have.
;-)
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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sykodelic
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 23:22:48
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A cleaner look is for dummies
pretty harsh! .
post edited by sykodelic - 2011/06/29 23:29:28
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AT
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/29 23:42:17
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Tongue in cheek take of some of the comments written about SONAR X1 - as are all of them. My momma likes clean, but she ain't no dummy and will go after you with a frying pan if you said it to her face.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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...wicked
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 00:08:13
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I dunno, no one made one of those Hitler parody videos for X1. That's truly a benchmark in disgruntledness.
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Notecrusher
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 00:49:13
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javahut
sykodelic
Let's say, just for grins, they went from X1 to... Sonar X2
that is wicked cool actually......
It may be wicked cool... but I'm not ready to take it on as a primary method to make music.
I am! I make electronic music and I'm sick to death of the tape recorder metaphor. This thing looks revolutionary. I hope he gets the funding to build a company.
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javahut
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 06:18:46
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Notecrusher
javahut
sykodelic
Let's say, just for grins, they went from X1 to... Sonar X2
that is wicked cool actually......
It may be wicked cool... but I'm not ready to take it on as a primary method to make music.
I am! I make electronic music and I'm sick to death of the tape recorder metaphor. This thing looks revolutionary. I hope he gets the funding to build a company.
Actually, it looks more like a 3D video game than something to make music with. I guess for those that want to make their music with a video game, it looks like fun maybe. It looks cool to me, too. I just don't want to have to play a video game to make music... yet. Come to think of it... it'd be really cool with 3D glasses on!!!... NOT.
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trimph1
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 07:32:51
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sykodelic
A cleaner look is for dummies
pretty harsh! .
What is it with Clean Sweep style GUI designs now? People afraid of a few icons that are left out so they can see where they are?
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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windsurfer25x
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 14:01:56
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javahut
Notecrusher
javahut
sykodelic
Let's say, just for grins, they went from X1 to... Sonar X2
that is wicked cool actually......
It may be wicked cool... but I'm not ready to take it on as a primary method to make music.
I am! I make electronic music and I'm sick to death of the tape recorder metaphor. This thing looks revolutionary. I hope he gets the funding to build a company.
Actually, it looks more like a 3D video game than something to make music with. I guess for those that want to make their music with a video game, it looks like fun maybe. It looks cool to me, too. I just don't want to have to play a video game to make music... yet.
Come to think of it... it'd be really cool with 3D glasses on!!!... NOT.
Yeah, upon further reflection. The initial audio demo was impressive but I don't think i'd want to make music that way.
Sonar X1 Expanded PE 64 bit
Intel i7 2600k oc'd, 16Gb DDR3 RAM, intel 320 SSD OS drive, 7200RPM HDDx2, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit VS 100, Tascam US-2000, UAD2 - Izotope, Fabfilter, NI Komplete 7/Kore2 & +, Spectrasonics+ http://www.maskensmobilestudio.com
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Notecrusher
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 17:09:30
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If you see 3D and just think "video game" and missed the innovation inherent in the demo, let alone the creative possibilities, then it's not for you. The 3D is not essential to the working paradigm in any case.
There is a huge amount of interest in this project, and like a lot of producers I can't wait to get my hands on it!
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John T
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 20:01:42
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Audio GL is really interesting, yeah. I think it's more of an instrument, than it's a DAW, but that's an increasingly fuzzy line to draw, I suppose. Certainly, anyone dismissing it as a toy is a fool, IMO.
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javahut
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 20:54:35
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OK... so can either one of you describe in simple terms what it will enable you to do that you can't do with tools available now? To me, it looks like many of the same tools available now, only you're able to dive into it at a more primitive, basic level to manipulate the sound... like the "assembly language" of sound. And most of the tools shown in the AudioGL demo are already available now... just not in the Tron like GUI. I don't really feel the need to SEE every individual component of what it takes to generate or manipulate a tone or sound in 3D. Nor do I need to automate a single fragment of sound hundreds of times within a second. It seems interesting because it looks different. The end result to me, so far, doesn't seem that different than any number of other tools already available. The sounds he's getting out of it so far remind me of a simpler version of a CSI:Miami soundtrack. But I'm sure many people, especially synth nerds and sound designers, will find it interesting to play with if it ever becomes available. Who knows... I may eventually be one of them. And all sound and music gear is a toy... just many different types of toys. 
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John T
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 21:01:53
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javahut
OK... so can either one of you describe in simple terms what it will enable you to do that you can't do with tools available now? To me, it looks like many of the same tools available now, only you're able to dive into it at a more primitive, basic level to manipulate the sound... like the "assembly language" of sound.
I think that's exactly it. It doesn't do anything you can't already do, in a purely technical sense, but it offers a new angle to approach the creative process from. Another thing for the box of tricks; nothing wrong with that.
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trimph1
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 21:24:00
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John T
Audio GL is really interesting, yeah. I think it's more of an instrument, than it's a DAW, but that's an increasingly fuzzy line to draw, I suppose. Certainly, anyone dismissing it as a toy is a fool, IMO.
I think it is a tool well worth developing..if only he could get someone to invest in it...
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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Notecrusher
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/06/30 21:24:26
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It seems to me he's taken the matrix of sound generation / mixing / signal processing and blown it to smithereens. It's kind of Reactor style in terms of working w/ core elements, but far more flexible. The way he's elevated automation to central focus is particularly novel and powerful. And is VERY appealing. I don't think that video even scratched the surface when you think about driving EVERYTHING w/ automation.
The other major innovation I saw was in workflow. The ease w/ which he built and modified sound by dragging elements, connecting them and enclosing them. Very simple gestures w/ very powerful results.
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puffer
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Re:OT: Comparing the outcry about Final Cut X to SONAR X1
2011/07/01 16:13:55
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AT
Obviously Apple doesn't care about their customer base. They are going for those who edit their kid's videos, not professionals. Steven Jobs doesn't care, anymore, not like he used to. Anybody that has anything positive to say about change, well the less said about them the better. A cleaner look is for dummies, although the pro editors can't be bothered to learn where all the good all stuff has been stuffed. And no doubt the new Final cut is flakey too, although no one else can replicate the faults the pros have.
;-)
I assume you're being facetious, but there is most likely a bit of truth to what you're saying, and not in an entirely negative way: http://sachin.posterous.com/why-apple-built-final-cut-pro-x I realize tollerance for Apple's shenanigans around here is probably pretty low, and it does strike me as short-sighted to throw-over their pro-users in such a caviler fashion, but they're not exactly hurting for successes these days. The software is a loss-leader for them to do as they want, they don't sell enough hardware to big editing houses to make retaining all that old code worthwhile. There's some debate about whether this will be the fate of Logic. Anyway, the comparison to X1 is flawed because a major point is that FCPX breaks compatibility with existing projects and project structures. Sonar X1 does not do that, nor do I see them doing that ever.
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