OT High-End Converters?

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jb
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2005/08/09 08:54:41 (permalink)

OT High-End Converters?

Hey all,
I'm doing some preservation work and need 2 channels of (external) high quality analogue to digital conversion. With a budget of < $1000 I've narrowed the field to the Mytek Stereo96 ADC, Lucid's AD9624 or RME's ADI-2 (cheaper and also does D/A). My, perhaps naive, understanding is that I can use the S/PDIF on these units to feed the S/PDIF in on my Audiophile 192 and that the Audiophile will not affect the input. Does this sound right? It seems weird to spend that much on converters only to feed the digital data into sonar via an RCA jack, even if it is Monster gold. Any experience with or comments on these units? I also considered the Apogee mini-me with usb but at $1300+ it's too rich. Any other candidates for high-end external A/D conversion? Ideas?

Thanks,

jb

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    Junski
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 09:01:22 (permalink)
    <deleted by the poster>
    post edited by Junski - 2006/01/14 02:51:43


    #2
    John Page
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 09:02:20 (permalink)
    This one is around $1500.00 alittle more money but worth it

    http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/adc1/


    EDIT:
    I'm doing some preservation work and need 2 channels of (external) high quality analogue to digital conversion

    What is your analog source? I would think all you need is a very good box that can do 44.1 at 24 bits, is it going down to CD or DVDA? Anyway I doubt very much your analog source will exceed the frequency response of 44.1
    post edited by John Page - 2005/08/09 09:20:00

    http://www.sangrailstudio.com/
    #3
    Junski
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 09:12:33 (permalink)
    <deleted by the poster>
    post edited by Junski - 2006/01/14 02:51:59


    #4
    John Page
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 09:16:13 (permalink)
    ?

    Wasn't it ADC what asked for. DAC1 is a DAC.

    Junski


    Yup........coffee has not yet kicked in!!!!!

    http://www.sangrailstudio.com/
    #5
    Nate
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 09:26:48 (permalink)
    Does this sound right?


    Was that pun intented?<g> the SPidif jacks still have to convert the signal. So staying with the higher quality convertors will improve the sound...but not becuase of the convertors so much as the accuracy of the clocks on the better units. For RME something like the WCM MKII works very well. Or the Apogee Big Ben for an external unit.

    Any other candidates for high-end external A/D conversion? Ideas?


    Yes. If you are just converting a limited amount of material and have a time frame...go rent the units you need. It will be less expensive, and easier to write off.

    #6
    jb
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 16:21:58 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Nate
    Does this sound right?

    Was that pun intented?<g> the SPidif jacks still have to convert the signal. So staying with the higher quality convertors will improve the sound...but not becuase of the convertors so much as the accuracy of the clocks on the better units. For RME something like the WCM MKII works very well. Or the Apogee Big Ben for an external unit.

    Any other candidates for high-end external A/D conversion? Ideas?


    Yes. If you are just converting a limited amount of material and have a time frame...go rent the units you need. It will be less expensive, and easier to write off.



    Thanks to all. Junski - nice unit but more than I need and, yes , I'm looking for analogue to digital.

    Nate,
    I'm recording (mostly mono, some stereo) tapes at 24/96 to hard drive and then making dvds for backup. The converters have to be external to meet iasa standards. The project will last several months so renting is probably not a viable option. I guess I'm confused as to what it is I need in addition to the converters themselves. Would something like the mini me be an 'all-in-one' solution?

    Thanks for your help,

    jb
    post edited by jb - 2005/08/09 16:39:01

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    Junski
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 16:39:38 (permalink)
    <deleted by the poster>
    post edited by Junski - 2006/01/14 02:52:55


    #8
    ohhey
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 16:42:47 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: jb

    Hey all,
    I'm doing some preservation work and need 2 channels of (external) high quality analogue to digital conversion. With a budget of < $1000 I've narrowed the field to the Mytek Stereo96 ADC, Lucid's AD9624 or RME's ADI-2 (cheaper and also does D/A). My, perhaps naive, understanding is that I can use the S/PDIF on these units to feed the S/PDIF in on my Audiophile 192 and that the Audiophile will not affect the input. Does this sound right? It seems weird to spend that much on converters only to feed the digital data into sonar via an RCA jack, even if it is Monster gold. Any experience with or comments on these units? I also considered the Apogee mini-me with usb but at $1300+ it's too rich. Any other candidates for high-end external A/D conversion? Ideas?

    Thanks,

    jb


    I would get a new sound card with the converters built in like a Lynx Two or RME FireFace. Having to use a digital audio interface like S/PDIF is taking an extra risk for nothing. All of those interfaces are single direction and non error checking !! Avoid digital cables at all cost. I think a Lynx card would be perfect for what you are trying to do. Even a Lynx one has fantastic converters if you only need 48K but the Lynx Two and L22 are even better and still under a grand.

    Frank Coffey - Songwriter
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=790131
    #9
    jb
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 17:32:44 (permalink)
    RME FireFace 800


    It looks like a great unit and I would love to have all those channels but it's too far over budget and I probably would be frustrated by not getting to use all the features. Since to properly utilize the Myteck or Lucid units will require additional hardware, the Apgee MiniMe usb at $1300+ might be my only real option. What would I have to get to use the RME ADI-2?

    Thanks,

    jb
    post edited by jb - 2005/08/09 18:25:18

    Celeron 300A o/c 450, SBLive, Win98SE
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    jb
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/09 18:37:53 (permalink)
    Hey Frank,
    Thanks for your suggestion, unfortunately the Lynx seems to be an internal card and the archival specs require the A/D conversion to be external to the computer. Damn, I thought this would be easy!

    Kind regards,

    jb

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    #11
    jm24
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/10 00:38:29 (permalink)
    Wednesday 12:05 am EDT USA

    Post your question to the newsgroup rec.audio.pro.

    Lots of knowledgeable persons hang there.

    Using google to do the newsgroup thang:

    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro?hl=en


    ================

    This book has some good info about jitter / converters / use of clocks:
    Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science by Bob Katz.

    ================

    SPDIF has been around for a while. Lots of persons use it. The issues are known and have been compensated for.

    (Short for Sony/Philips Digital Interface, a standard audio file transfer format. Developed jointly by the Sony and Phillips corporations, S/PDIF allows the transfer of digital audio signals from one device to another without having to be converted first to an analog. format. Maintaining the viability of a digital signal prevents the quality of the signal from degrading when it is converted to analog. )

    Some more info: http://www.andrewkilpatrick.org/mind/spdif/

    (and: Interfacing AES3 & S/PDIF: http://www.rane.com/note149.html)


    Wire cables have less distortion than optical. But this depends upon the degree of error correction built into the boxes.

    USB and firewire introduce another layer of protocol and interpretation and annoyance.

    They are the new kids. Still enjoying those growing pains. Not heard by most. And apparently livable with.

    But you are doing archive grade conversions.

    ================

    Look for reviews at sites like:
    prorec.com


    J
    #12
    ohhey
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/10 01:45:49 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: jb

    Hey Frank,
    Thanks for your suggestion, unfortunately the Lynx seems to be an internal card and the archival specs require the A/D conversion to be external to the computer. Damn, I thought this would be easy!

    Kind regards,

    jb


    What archival specs and why ? There are internal cards that are inferior to external converters but the Lynx are not one of them. Unless the external converter has a USB or Firewire connection you will be going through a non error checking connection and you will need some type of card anyway. There was a time back in the 16bit days that only external converters were good but those days are over. Any time you have to run digital audio or clock through a cable there is a chance you will not get what you paid for and it might even be worse then a Lynx. It's just like recording to DAT, there are errors and no way to even know how many there are. An interface with a direct data connection to your computer like USB or better yet Firewire is the way to go.

    Frank Coffey - Songwriter
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=790131
    #13
    jb
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/10 15:51:47 (permalink)
    What archival specs and why ?

    The iasa, the Library of Congress Digital Audio Preservation Project, and the joint IU/Harvard Sound Directions project all call for external converters. Technically I could get by with a $200 Audiophile USB but I'm afraid that would defeat the purpose. I think the demand for external converters probably stems from the not-so-long-ago days when internal cards tended to be more along the lines of a SB16 than a Lynx but, really, all I know is I have to do it their way. I'm still looking for the best solution to achieving two channels of high-end A/D conversion for around $1000. So far, the MiniMe looks like the winner but the search continues...

    Kind regards,
    jb

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    smk
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/10 16:05:21 (permalink)
    Lynx 2 or L22. Check out www.gearslutz.com and do a search on the rme vs. the lynx. I bought the Lynx 2 and it's better than my 44.1/48k original Rosetta AD. There's even mods that Jim Williams does on this card for a couple hunded bucks and that's supposed to make it compete with the big boys - Mytek and Lavry. As is, it is supposed to be on even par with the new Rosetta 200. 'Nuff said.

    ______________________________________________
    You only live once...
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    ohhey
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/10 16:19:30 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: jb

    What archival specs and why ?

    The iasa, the Library of Congress Digital Audio Preservation Project, and the joint IU/Harvard Sound Directions project all call for external converters. Technically I could get by with a $200 Audiophile USB but I'm afraid that would defeat the purpose. I think the demand for external converters probably stems from the not-so-long-ago days when internal cards tended to be more along the lines of a SB16 than a Lynx but, really, all I know is I have to do it their way. I'm still looking for the best solution to achieving two channels of high-end A/D conversion for around $1000. So far, the MiniMe looks like the winner but the search continues...

    Kind regards,
    jb


    I'd like to know what "external converters" have been used in the past, I'll bet they are lame by todays sound card standard. Someone is stuck in a time warp and hasted updated their requirement to match modern devices.

    Frank Coffey - Songwriter
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=790131
    #16
    jb
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/10 17:48:05 (permalink)
    Someone is stuck in a time warp and hasted updated their requirement to match modern devices.


    Totally, but I gotta play by their rules.

    Best,

    jb

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    #17
    Bill OConnell
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/10 22:26:20 (permalink)
    So how about looking into a Lynx Aurora external unit? www.lynxstudio.com

    I know "rules are rules," but the Lynx II family of cards (including the L22) are impossible to beat for the money, IMO.

    Good luck with the project.

    #18
    danp2000
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/11 08:06:29 (permalink)
    If you are using a laptop you can purchase an Echo Audio IndigoIO. Not bad if your source is line level. I doubt your client could hear the difference.

    Another choice (which I also use) is an Ediro UA-1000. It is a 1U unit that connects to any computer using USB2 for the pipe. A little older than the fireface but has very nice converters.


    Dan Proctor
    me@PwPCentral.net
    #19
    jb
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/11 09:40:03 (permalink)
    So how about looking into a Lynx Aurora external unit? www.lynxstudio.com
    [/quote

    Thanks Bill,
    Very nice unit but too far over budget. There seem to be several 2 channel A/D converters for around $1,000: Lucid, Mytek, or even the RME AD1 which goes both ways and is only $550 but I don't sufficiently understand the connectivity issues to make an informed decision. Perhaps I should start a new thread; "What's the best way to connect converters to the computer if you don't use ProTools?" Throwing "protools" in there should bring thousands of comments. ;)

    Kind regards,

    jb

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    Junski
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/11 10:09:56 (permalink)
    <deleted by the poster>
    post edited by Junski - 2006/01/14 02:54:01


    #21
    notfadeaway...
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/11 10:12:39 (permalink)
    I dont' want to hijack this thread but I had a similar question. I am looking to make a huge step up from my Aardvark Direct Pro Q10, but can't seem to FULLY understand the different interfaces.

    What would be a unit in the say $3,000-4,000 range that would act as a soundcard/input device?
    I come across Lynx and Apogee but again, dont know jack about these companies... is like comparing Fender and Gibson?

    Thank you...

    ADK Intel i7 3.6Ghz
    Sonar Producer X3
    RME FireFace 800



    #22
    LaptopPop
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/11 11:30:41 (permalink)
    Here's two more interesting options for ultra high quality conversion.


    MOTU HD192 -- 1800.
    OK, out of the price range - but 12 channels of amazing conversion in and out.

    Mackie 800R -- 1000.
    This may be a great option. It gives you 8 channels of preamp along with pristine 192kHz conversion.

    -lee-
    #23
    wz061s
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/12 01:09:43 (permalink)
    I hesitate to post this in response to an advice question that lists Mytek Stereo96 ADC, Lucid's AD9624, etc., but you also listed the ADI-2, and I have heard that my humble Emu 1820m is pretty darned close to the quality of that RME AD/DA. I pair my 1820m with a FNR Really Nice Preamp and I've got a very clean transparent stereo input chain with some pretty amazing D/A high output monitoring for less than $1K. With the money I've saved I can afford some good vintage modeled plugs and better microphones. The new drivers are very stable on my system with Sonar, P5, and Live.
    #24
    Junski
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/12 16:03:54 (permalink)
    <deleted by the poster>
    post edited by Junski - 2006/01/14 02:55:32


    #25
    oddeoguy
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    RE: OT High-End Converters? 2005/08/12 21:14:47 (permalink)
    Why not get a Multiface with the ADI-2? Or the HDSP9632 with the ADI-2? I love the RME stuff... check out www.synthax.com Cool stuff there!

    post edited by oddeoguy - 2005/08/12 21:19:54

    Oddeos!

    Oddeoguy
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