cyberzip
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OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
I just need to vent the frustration of mixing/mastering a demo track of mine! I'm sitting here, going nuts about whether or not to boost 1.8 dB at 5.9 kHz, even though I'm pretty sure that's the last thing that's going to affect my chances of getting attention. With earlier projects, I've spent days mucking around with the treble. This very day I'm not happy with the treble level I ended up with. Sometimes fast is good! :P
post edited by cyberzip - 2006/11/07 15:31:32
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themidiroom
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/07 15:25:55
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ORIGINAL: cyberzip
I'm sitting here, going nuts about whether or not to boost 1.8 dB at 5.9 kHz, even though I'm pretty sure that's the last thing that's going to affect my chances of getting attention.
What is going on at 5.9K that you think you need to boost or cut? Is this going to be a peak/notch or shelf? When faced with these types of questions, I ask myself what is there to gain or lose?
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yep
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/07 15:53:00
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Stop. Pull down all the faders. Take a deep breath, wait a few seconds, and then push them back up and listen again.
As midiroom says, listen and think in terms of where you're trying to get to. And give your ears frequent breaks. Sometimes when you're going nuts chasing gremlins, 15 seconds of silence can really help. When you turn the mix back up, you may find that what you've got sounds fine, or the problem you were trying to isolate may become glaringly obvious.
Cheers.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/07 17:45:16
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good advice here. in addition to giving your ears a rest, get a cd of the artist you are trying to sound like and a/b it with your own mix. you may find that they didn't really bother with the attack on the kick like you did, but the snare and hats are more present, and the guitars really aren't as low-mid heavy as yours, and so on.
whenever i get into obsessive mode i try to take a break and critically listen to some of my favorite music. what did they leave out? what brings me into this song musically? you may be agonizing over 5.9 khz when there's a bigger issue to solve which would make 5.9 khz a moot point.
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chaz
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/07 18:00:32
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Depending on the importance of the demo itself, I would be happy to both mix and master the tune for you. I do not work for free, but I will give you great results!
Let me know if you are interested and we can go from there.
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themidiroom
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/08 09:05:58
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Good suggestions. I think one thing we have to remember is that part of the musical experience is about the emotion and the feel of the tune. It's easy to get wrapped up in the technical aspects and lose the sheer joy of the music that help get attention by those that listen to it.
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DonnyAir
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/08 09:39:06
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It's also easy to start to lose objectivity when you are wearing all the hats...
writer, arranger, performer, recording engineer, mixing engineer, mastering engineer...
That's a lot of phases for one person to be involved in... I know.. I've done it many times.
As stated above, walk away from it. And if you are not facing some ridiculous deadline, step away from it for more than an hour. Step away for a couple days.
(If you are facing a deadline then I would encourage you to hire another pro like Chaz, Yep, Midi or any of the other cats who frequent these forums. Sometimes fresh ears from a fresh perspective can be just what the audio doctor ordered...LOL)
Right now you are focusing on a particular bandwidth that may or may not matter in the scheme of things when all is said and done. Or, maybe it does matter... but right now you're so wrapped up on one particular task that the rest is suffering by default.
Take a breath, step back, hit it again in a few days when your fresh.
Some more words of advice from a guy ho has had more than his share of ear fatigue in over 20 years of engineering:
Try to stay away from mixing things strictly in solo mode.
You can spend hours on the kick (or bass guitar, or whatever) solo'd up, and you end up focusing in on things that
1.) won't matter at all when the other parts are mixed in and
2.) likely cause you to perhaps change other parts around it to compensate, things that don't need changing and now you're really chasing your tail!
Zoning in on tonal parameters for extended periods of time, no matter what db you're at, will eventually cause you to start hearing "ghost" freq's... you start hearing problems that aren't even there. In my experience, this is where the most damage to the mix can be done, because not only are you focused in on ONE thing for an extended period of time, but you start hearing stuff ... nonexistent "artifacts" that can cause you to start messing with stuff that should have been left alone.
Save what you've done and step away from it. Go for a walk in the park or something. Don't watch TV or listen to the radio. Give your ears a break.
You'll be alright.
There isn't one of us here who hasn't faced the aural fatigue thing.
FWIW
-D.
http://www.donnythompson.com
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/08 17:46:15
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ORIGINAL: DonnyAir
Try to stay away from mixing things strictly in solo mode. amen to that. in fact i avoid soloing unless it's absolutely necessary. in the initial stages it's fine for big adjustments, like whacking the low-mids off a vocal or something. but once each instrument sounds decent by itself (and that should not take long) i move into full mix mode and try not to get out of it.
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themidiroom
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/09 08:37:17
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ORIGINAL: DonnyAir
Try to stay away from mixing things strictly in solo mode. I used to make that mistake when I started mixing.
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DonnyAir
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/09 08:51:02
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Just to clarify here...
I'm not saying to NOT use the solo function. It can be a useful tool.
It's just been my own experience that if you zone in too much on a given track, you'll likely find things you might not dig, and you can end up spending too much time worrying about some of these things - things that might not even matter once the entire mix is referenced.
Also, EQ'ing or adding dynamics processing to a single track in solo mode can be detrimental in that you are only referencing the track to itself ... and not to the other tracks and parts that go with it. For example, You can end up spending a fair amount of time EQ'ing or compressing a kick track that sounds great when solo'd up... but sounds undefined or squashed once you start cueing up the other tracks around it.
IMHO
D.
http://www.donnythompson.com
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themidiroom
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/09 09:09:20
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ORIGINAL: DonnyAir
Just to clarify here...
I'm not saying to NOT use the solo function. It can be a useful tool.
Whew! I was about to have my solo buttons removed.  But seriously folks, good advice DonnyAir. Generally when I solo stuff I'm listening for key things, then I play it back with the mix or with a group of tracks that need to work together.
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jacktheexcynic
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/09 17:47:30
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that's usually what i do as well. basically, i use solo mode to fix what i don't like about the recording. once i'm in mix mode i try to look at the mix as a whole and i listen to that when adjusting individual tracks.
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malang
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/13 03:48:33
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daverich
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/13 05:34:33
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ORIGINAL: DonnyAir
Just to clarify here...
I'm not saying to NOT use the solo function. It can be a useful tool.
It's just been my own experience that if you zone in too much on a given track, you'll likely find things you might not dig, and you can end up spending too much time worrying about some of these things - things that might not even matter once the entire mix is referenced.
Also, EQ'ing or adding dynamics processing to a single track in solo mode can be detrimental in that you are only referencing the track to itself ... and not to the other tracks and parts that go with it. For example, You can end up spending a fair amount of time EQ'ing or compressing a kick track that sounds great when solo'd up... but sounds undefined or squashed once you start cueing up the other tracks around it.
IMHO
D.
Just to add to this I was mixing a track the other day with a finger-picked acoustic guitar and a finger picked clean electric. To listen to what I did to the acoustic solo would have made any engineer reach for the eq - I had to chop out all of the bottom end, alot of the lo-mid and boost up the highs. Also the electric needed some taming on the highs a little kick on the mids and again chuck out the bass/lo-mids. On their own they sound like crap - but in the mix they sound fantastic - leaving room for the bass to do it's thing - the vocals to stand out and the drums to take the primary rhythmic position without having to fight with thumps from the guitars. Those *ghost artifacts* as you put it quite often can work in your favour. The listener doesn't notice they're listening to only a third of the frequency spread of an acoustic guitar - because in the mix their brain tells them the rest of the sound is there, which leaves you that precious space for something else. Kind regards Dave Rich
post edited by daverich - 2006/11/13 05:51:45
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cyberzip
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/22 06:00:06
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It's good to discuss these things, and good to hear that everyone else is having (more or less) the same problems. :) Even though it's usually just about small details in the mix, I always tend to think that it's the sum of all the small details that does it.
I'm still not through with the track in question... :) But I've put a virtual deadline for myself to get it finished.
And in the end: "It's better finished than good."
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Sonic the Hedgehog
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/25 10:35:57
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Hi cyberzip,
One of the hardest thing to do when mixing or mastering is determining how much of it you actually need. Adding effects(or compression) for the sake of adding effects can do more harm to a piece than adding nothing at all. A few years ago, after I had bought my first reverb processor for $300, I began mixing my first piece. It sounded great without any effects, but I said to myself, ''Self, you just spent $300 on this beautiful unit. Use it anyway!''. Well, guess what? My music sounded worse than before!
''I work to live, but live to make music'' -Mahler
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chaz
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RE: OT: Mixing/mastering angst!
2006/11/25 11:43:06
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To listen to what I did to the acoustic solo would have made any engineer reach for the eq Depends on the mixer, Dave.
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