OT: New Rush CD and others

ORIGINAL: Hansenhaus

Wow. I picked up the new Rush CD today. I was grossly disspointed in the engineering. The CD is too F"ing loud. It's compressed and limited to death, noisy and just plain hard to listen to. The drums sound very lame and the vocals are so buried under the lousy guitar sound I can hardly make it out what Geddy is singing. The mixes have no punch, clarity or seperation and clip all over the place. I'm not sure where things start to get out of control. Whether it's at the mixing stage, in the mastering or both but who ever is making the decisions to pump CDs up to death should have their ass fired. I'm TOTALLY sick of this BS. When is the industry going to wake up and do the right thing and put back the dynamic range back in music? It's painfully obvious today's music sounds much worse than 10 years ago. Put on Moving Pictures and it BLOWS away the sound of their new CD. That CD was done over 20 years ago!

Is it just the analog vs. digital thing or have today's trends just passed me by?
Are these so called "professional" engineers clueless about how to get a good sound and mix a track well?
How can the people involved with that relsase sit back and listen to it with pride?

Can someone please point me in the direction of a great sounding CD what was mixed completely in the box so I may renew my enthusiam for todays music and digital mixing?

Eric

I'm sorry to hear that.. there was a big $hit storm over Vapor Trails when it came out because it was driven to clipping and had almost no dynamic range. It would appear who should have been fired was not. Todays CDs are just like that. I'm not buying any till it stops. Recently I've been buying import LPs off e-bay. I put a real stereo together and dusted off my turntable and it kicks.. well you know. In fact anything with an attack like kick drum or acoustic guitar picking... almost everything sounds better on LP the attack just has that "snap" to it and the tone is fantastic.

I've been listening to records so much I played a CD last night and from force of habit I tried to turn it over and play the other side... the CD player didn't like that.

Yeah, I bought it too, yesterday, and I've listened maybe three times.... The thing about Vapor Trails is, while it's a terribly mastered CD, the music itself was good. This one just sounds like Presto. It's a shame, you know... Yes has recently made a great CD (Magnification), and it's sad that Rush can't get their act together too...

heh, don't feel bad it's like that everywhere these days, I mastered a CD for one of our clients, was mostly classical with ensembles and vocals, radio turned her down because it was too thin ;)

Goes to show, radio station guys are too lazy to read VU meters these days and adapt their levels to *good* music to match their blocky-wav-form **** they play every day.

I sadly had to remaster it to -14 ~ -12db RMS for them to actually accept it, dynamics they don't want any. Talk about murdering good musical skills.

ORIGINAL: agincourtdb

Yeah, I bought it too, yesterday, and I've listened maybe three times.... The thing about Vapor Trails is, while it's a terribly mastered CD, the music itself was good. This one just sounds like Presto. It's a shame, you know... Yes has recently made a great CD (Magnification), and it's sad that Rush can't get their act together too...

I hurts me to say negative stuff about Rush since I really respect them but it seems like they have lost their edge. Technical aspects aside I didn't really like the the new Rush album much. Not a whole lot of melodic content there and the instrumentals were pretty boring. I've sort of been out of the loop with Rush for a while so I've been cathcing up with the stuff between Power Windos and now. This one is definitely a let down. One thing that struck me was Alex and Geddy got some engineering credit. I would think after 30 years of rock concerts their hearing is not what it use to be. They would be the last ones I would trust with a knob. The guitar tone is noisy and most of the tracks are doubled and panned hard L/R. It sort of swallows up the entire middle leaving the vocals, bass and drums sounding distant and weak. They probably spent a ton of money in in the studio and for what?

There are pictures from the sessions on their website. There must be over 25 mics on Neil's drums. I thought that photo was awesome but when I heard the results I was shocked at how lousy it sounded. There is no excuse for a band like Rush to have a bad souding CD. They have a large budget and the experience to get the job done. They missed the mark on this one along with the elite group of tards that mixed and mastered it.

Oh by the way, I'm not impressed with their new producer either. The arrangements are not very good.

On a lighter note, the artwork is great. It seems like Hugh Syme is the only one that still has creativity. Maybe they should hire him as the producer!

ORIGINAL: craigwilson
It is surprising that Rush would not listen to thier old stuff and realise how good it sounds compared to a lot of recent releases. Oh, just put Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" on the turntable, put on your headphones (and optionally imbibe your substance of choice) and everything seems right with the world...

Which makes me wonder: do bands/artists actually listen to the commercial cd of their own work, or do they have a special version which hasn't been squashed to death?

I agree the new Rush CD is mixed and mastered much better than Vapor Trails even though there is alot of compression.
But the more I listen to the songs on Snakes and Arrows, the more I like them.
They arrangements are hard to follow but after a few listens you start to pick it up.
I think Bravest Face, Malnar, and Far Cry and my favs.

ORIGINAL: John Page
[David Gilmore "On an Island" released 2006 the music is on the sleepy side but mastered wonderfully average RMS -3db

Are you sure about that number? Just offhand, that would be an incredibly loud/squashed recording.

Can't speak for the Gilmore album... but staying on the post-Floyd theme... Roger Waters' "Amused to Death" (1992?) is definately an album to listen to if you want to hear dynamics... Bob Katz even gives it a shout-out: http://www.digido.com/misc-content/honor-roll.html I'm actually a little younger than the Floyd generation, so I sort of missed that whole thing (I remember "The Wall"... but I was like 8 at the time )... but this Roger Waters album is just fantastic... The artistry, production, and engineering combine to produce something that is very compelling for listeners... Would have been mixed analog...

You know, I don't understand why the industry can't just put a damn label on the CD... You know, "hey stupid, if you like your CDs loud then turn up the volume 2 notches when you listen to this one". Kinda like the warning sticker they put on for parental advisories... In fact, since it's all digital they could make a standard where CD players get fed a code when they read the TOC to compensate the volume appropriately...

You know what's so ridiculous is the whole concept of "high-def" audio... WHAT?!?!?! So I get to listen to the same old, squashed, clipped CRAP... but now I guess the clipping and lack of dynamics is more pristine than before... Gotcha.

I picked up a used CD containing a song I'd become attached to for completely non-musical reasons, and the difference between hearing it on a home stereo and in the car is just amazing. At home of course there's more detail and subtlety, but all the drive (sorry) seems to vanish. In the car the drums pick up and the sparseness of the arrangements takes on a whole other dynamic. The vocals are somewhat isolated at home, but fully immersed in the car. Now, it may be played much louder while driving, but I wonder if this isn't intentionally mixed for high volume levels. I've also read a few times where recordings are being oriented toward headphone listening. Seems those of us who really appreciate sound are an ever-shrinking minority.

ORIGINAL: John Page
It's mastered at -15db

Now that's a ray of hope.

ORIGINAL: John Page

The biggest difference from like say moving pictures and the new CD is the drum and Guitar sounds are HUGE, real HUGE on the new CD making the Bass sound kind of on the wimpy and not leaving much room for the vocals to stand out.

I know it's a matter of taste but I have to disagre with you to an extent. I think the drums sound flat and lifeless. There is no punch and the tom fills don't stand out at all. The cymbals sound like crap, period. The guitars on the other hand are big sounding but in a way that hurts the mix badly. When I think of huge guitar sounds that kick totall ass I think King's X. All the right tones. The SnA guitar sound is so blairy and squishy. There is no definition to the sound and absolutely no seperation in the overall mix. It sounds like tons of crap just stacked on each other to me.

Eric

ORIGINAL: soundtweaker

I agree the new Rush CD is mixed and mastered much better than Vapor Trails even though there is alot of compression.
But the more I listen to the songs on Snakes and Arrows, the more I like them.
They arrangements are hard to follow but after a few listens you start to pick it up.
I think Bravest Face, Malnar, and Far Cry and my favs.

Unfortuantely, I was so disssapointed I gave the CD to a friend of mine. I may purchase the DVD when it comes out next month. The surround mixes may sound better plus I'm interested in any behind the scenes video they may add to it. iTunes has a 5 minute video on the making of the CD but I'm not purchasing the whole album just to see it.

ORIGINAL: tycyphy
...I do like some albums that are squashed to hell but its usually apropriate for the type of music. Modern mastering styles don't compliment rush's music though.

Absolutely right. The first memory that I have with Rush is that world-changing, crashing, ballistic drum roll-down that Neal Peart did on 2112. I can't think of Rush without dynamics. It's like going into battle with earmuffs on. It just doesn't fit.

I'm kind of amazed that a band like Rush even worries about how their stuff sounds on radio anymore. Isn't there just an army of fans out there that tend to buy their stuff regardless of hype or radio play? And certainly their largest revenues probably are from concerts and T-shirt sales...

That said, it's just shameful that a band with their history and stature should suffer from these kinds of problems. Somehow, there must be some sort of interpersonal problems, or someone with tin ears who makes the final decision on the mix that ends up going out the door...and apparently those with ears to hear are unable to speak up and prevent disaster.

But as big a Rush fan as I have been over the years, I still have to agree with the person who said they liked about half of their songs on each album. On the albums since Hold Your Fire, I have probably liked less than that...about 30% (and Power Windows and Hold Your Fire have not help up well over time - at least for me). It's not that their sound has changed so much, IMO...it's just that the material isn't that strong anymore. And for a band that always says of their earlier stuff "well, we don't want to be pigeon-holed and stagnate - we've already been there, done that" I think that's exactly what's happening. They simply aren't all that adventurous. I'm almost hoping someday they will retire from touring and become a 'studio-only' band where they can stretch out and amaze us all once again. But it just doesn't seem like what they want to do anymore.

But I will probably buy this album. I didn't and won't buy Vapor Trails unless they remaster it. There are some good songs on there, but I can't bear to listen to that album (I will admit, I heard so many bad things that I downloaded a few samples first - just awful).

But it's not that big of a deal. There is a lot of music out there to take Rush's place. With better songwriting, better production, better musicianship, etc. Although obviously there is no one who could be a direct replacement for these guys, I will fill in the gap with: The Flower Kings, Dream Theater, Karmakanic, Tomas Bodin, Kaipa, and The Tangent.

All of whom will be coming out with new albums in the next couple of months, all of which will undoubtedly issue albums of very good sonic quality. Or at least better than Rush. :-)

ORIGINAL: JSkeen

I liked the new rush album, although very "hot" I thought the tunes were good. The new porcupine tree album sounds great and isn't very "hot". My girlfriend listens to alot of pop music and sometimes I grab a CD from here to listen back through my setup and 99% of the time it sounds horrible. What are they thinking? Listen back to the dark side of the moon and pull out almost any release over the past 5-6 years and tell me which one sounds better.

I know.. it's just sad and ironic at the same time. It does make me feel better about my production skills to know the so called "pros" are so bad at it.