OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit?

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Susan G
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2008/07/09 23:38:11 (permalink)

OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit?

Hi-

I need to get a UPS and am only familiar with APC units since that's what my company uses. There's one at Amazon here, but I don't really know what I'm looking for/at.

All suggestions welcome!

Thanks-

-Susan

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 07:53:55 (permalink)
    I see Tripp Lite get top marks by techies that actually take them apart and look at what you get for each price point.

    I'm not sure if they make UPS systems or just conditioner and surge protection but I'd give them a look see.

    best regards,
    mike
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    scook
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 08:36:10 (permalink)
    TRIPP-LITE makes units similar to the one in Susan's link. I am looking at one right now. We have both the APC and TRIPP-LITE models at work. I guess they are OK for what they do. For my personal use, I recently bought this one. I wanted a unit that does a little more line conditioning. I figure the unit costs less than $20 a year. That is pretty cheap insurance. Be aware though, anything larger than the models that look like a power strip with a battery will probably have a fan and make some noise.
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    losguy
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 13:35:59 (permalink)
    Susan, the one you picke out looks fine. APC or Tripp-Lite are fine brands for UPS. Spec-wise, you may also want to know how long they can put out their rated VA rating... that's how long you have to either sail throught he power outage, and/or to gracefully shut down your machine.

    Along the same OT, I also highly recommend the Tripp-Lite ISO-BAR power strips. They have very good line filtering, with separate filters on each pair of outlets (so they're actually filtered from each other, right in the same power strip).

    Speaking of noise, you will want to keep any sensitive audio lines (and especially any equipment that uses audio transformers) away from one of these puppies... UPS's put out a lot of EMI.

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    ohhey
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 14:26:51 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Susan G

    Hi-

    I need to get a UPS and am only familiar with APC units since that's what my company uses. There's one at Amazon here, but I don't really know what I'm looking for/at.

    All suggestions welcome!

    Thanks-

    -Susan


    Be aware of two things. UPSs use electricity all the time no matter if your gear is on or not. So look for your bill to go up. Also, they don't last forever and when they fail you could have a crash or even a fire. If you are going to own one of those things you need to keep it up, replace the batteries on schedule, and replace the unit before it fails.

    The only computer crash I've ever had was when my UPS shut everything down. I guess it decided I had too much stuff plugged into it or one of them was drawing too many amps at the time. That was the first straw and made me very angry since the only reason I bought the thing was to prevent that exact event and it caused it !! If the computer had been plugged into the wall it would have never happened. The last straw was when the buzzer went off (and I'm so glad it did) in the middle of the night. Lucky it woke me up because I went in there to find the unit was hot as a frying pan and the carpet it was on was almost melted. I was able to get it shut off and risking my life opened it, put on some electricians gloves, and used needle nose pliers to get the wires off the battery. The case of the lead acid battery swelled up and was about to rupture. If the buzzer had failed or failed to wake me up my house could have burned down and maybe killed me and my family. I'm just saying...
    post edited by ohhey - 2008/07/10 14:50:50
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    Russell.Whaley
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 14:47:36 (permalink)
    Geez, Frank... that's scary. Glad to know you and yours made it through that ok.

    My current UPC came from APC's online outlet store (it's a refurb - with warranty), and is doing fine. I paid about 60% off list.




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    JJones74
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 15:03:19 (permalink)
    I've got the same APC.. no problems yet.. I got a really good deal on mine though, I got it for under 100.00 (I know someone that works for Best buy).. ;)
    I agree with Frank.. Definitely disconnect this when not in use as your bill will rise!!!

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    ohhey
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 15:25:49 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: JJones74

    I've got the same APC.. no problems yet.. I got a really good deal on mine though, I got it for under 100.00 (I know someone that works for Best buy).. ;)
    I agree with Frank.. Definitely disconnect this when not in use as your bill will rise!!!


    Yeah.. it would be nice for those who really need one if it had a shut down mode where it would not try to charge or anything. A ture "off" position. I don't of any that have that. In fact I'd like to have a real power switch or relay that cuts the line. The way I would design it is that switch would be the "test" swtich in the "online" mode so you could confirm the switchover to battery would go without a glitch. And if you had the unit in "offline" mode it would just be a power switch for the entire unit so it wouldn't be using any power.
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    haydn12
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 17:53:52 (permalink)
    I usually purchase the APC refurbed units. Much cheaper than a new unit and usually cheaper than replacing a battery.

    Jim
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    jacktheexcynic
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 18:39:37 (permalink)
    APC or tripp-lite is a good choice. i know people who swear by tripp-lite but i've had a ton of APCs and they all last several years on one battery. i have my entertainment system (it's decent sized but not audio-phile or anything) plugged into one and it does just fine during tennessee lightning storms.

    - jack the ex-cynic
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    Beagle
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 20:07:32 (permalink)
    I have a related question and I hope Susan doesn't mind my semi-hijacking her thread...

    How many of you who use battery back up units use the software and connection (either USB or Serial) with it? I have an APC which connects to the computer via USB, but I disconnected the USB cable and disabled the software in the start up apps because I thought it was causing problems during recording/mixing when it was communicating with the unit. I don't know how often it "polled" the unit, but I had no control over it and thought it best to disable it. so my backup runs in manual mode only.

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 20:22:24 (permalink)
    I never let the UPC speak to my system.

    And in fact I was holding off saying it until Frank mentioned it but the UPS I used was retired FOR GOOD the day it smoldered and then burst into open flames as I was walking it out of my studio.

    I felt like I must of overworked it but the failure mode was way not cool.

    Now that systems like WinXP aren't trashed by cold reboots I hardly care about a UPS. I just don't see a need.


    best regards,
    mike
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    jacktheexcynic
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 20:46:15 (permalink)
    i would not bother with the software. unless you leave work open without saving you don't need it to hibernate your computer (and do you really want to turn hibernation on? probably not).

    i use them because there are frequent power fluctuations where i live and i'd just rather not be in the middle of a session and have a reboot. i'm not about to go out and buy a power conditioner but i prefer to spend the $60 and know that i won't have to worry about power failures.

    - jack the ex-cynic
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    JJones74
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 22:22:41 (permalink)
    +1
    Mine isn't speaking to my PC either..

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    WaveScape
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/10 22:26:33 (permalink)
    I looked in the owners manual for my PC's power supply and it says that it is not compatible with "simulated sine wave" UPS units.

    Of course they are usually less money.

    True sine wave UPS is bigger $$$.....
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    ohhey
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 10:42:29 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: WaveScape

    I looked in the owners manual for my PC's power supply and it says that it is not compatible with "simulated sine wave" UPS units.

    Of course they are usually less money.

    True sine wave UPS is bigger $$$.....


    Another good reason to avoid them... go big or don't bother. Also, be glad your computer has good taste, it doesn't like bad sound quality either. Even if it's just listening to a single low note (60hz) it still doesn't want a distorted low sample rate mess, it wants to hear a nice smooth wave. LOL !!
    post edited by ohhey - 2008/07/11 11:07:23
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    Susan G
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 12:37:23 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the great feedback!

    I'm probably going to keep doing what I'm doing, which is to shut down/unplug when I know nasty weather is approaching. I can shut down my PC remotely from work, which is better than nothing.

    The inquiry was really more for my Dad than me. He's in Florida and they've had some pretty violent storms lately. His modem and PC got zapped by a lightning strike recently (although his electricity stayed on, oddly enough) and he asked me what I use . I had an episode recently that blew out only my NIC card, so I was wondering for myself, too.

    Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. Is there something that specifically protects against "zaps" like these (without causing a fire hazard itself?)?

    I'll pass along a synopsis of what you all say and see where he wants to go from there.

    Thanks again-

    -Susan

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    scook
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 13:11:45 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Beagle

    How many of you who use battery back up units use the software and connection

    I see no need for software to turn my machine off for me. My new UPS has any info I need right on the display on the UPS.

    ORIGINAL: Susan G

    Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. Is there something that specifically protects against "zaps" like these

    Some surge and spike protectors have ports for all the connections between your PC and the outside world. If on a tight budget, they are better than nothing. Keep in mind if the lightning is close enough, nothing short disconnecting everything from the PC is going to protect it. Even then, under the right circumstances lighting can do some pretty amazing stuff.
    post edited by scook - 2008/07/11 13:42:45
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    mwd
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 13:59:36 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue ~ Now that systems like WinXP aren't trashed by cold reboots I hardly care about a UPS. I just don't see a need.


    I'm sitting here looking at a WD1200 disk that has pix of my grandkids and a whole flurry of music that is now a paperweight due to 2 abrupt power outs.

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    Beagle
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 14:12:04 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: mwd

    ORIGINAL: mike_mccue ~ Now that systems like WinXP aren't trashed by cold reboots I hardly care about a UPS. I just don't see a need.


    I'm sitting here looking at a WD1200 disk that has pix of my grandkids and a whole flurry of music that is now a paperweight due to 2 abrupt power outs.



    I've got one of those! With a YEAR'S worth of my sonar files that I did not have backed up!

    Some surge and spike protectors have ports for all the connections between your PC and the outside world. If on a tight budget, they are better than nothing. Keep in mind if the lightning is close enough, nothing short disconnecting everything from the PC is going to protect it. Even then, under the right circumstances lighting can do some pretty amazing stuff.


    I think Steve is saying this as well here, but really the only way to protect your equipment from lightning strikes is to unplug it from the power completely. Even if you don't have your computer or whatever turned on, if lightning runs thru your electrical wiring in your house, you will very likely suffer loss. the UPS systems (which actually for home use is kind of an oxymoron since it's NOT really UNINTERUPTABLE, but that's a different rant) and surge protectors will help with some spikes, but they can't always stop lightning, especially if it's a direct strike. The MAIN function of a battery backup system is to allow you to shut down safely in the event of a power outage.
    post edited by Beagle - 2008/07/11 15:06:53

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    losguy
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 14:43:45 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Susan G
    Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. Is there something that specifically protects against "zaps" like these (without causing a fire hazard itself?)?

    http://www.provantage.com/tripp-ht1010sat3~7TRPS02J.htm
    http://www.provantage.com/tripp-ht10dbs~7TRPS02H.htm

    Look for high spike energy ratings (in J, or Joules). Tripp-Lite has some good ones, I think because they put the surge protection inside the filtering circuits, which works better than doing each piece (filtering and suppression) separately.

    Anyway, that's good for spikes and surges whose sources are far away on the line. But if your dad is dealing with lighting strikes close by, he may need to have something professionally installed.

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    bapu
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 15:03:15 (permalink)
    I'm sitting here looking at a WD1200 disk that has pix of my grandkids and a whole flurry of music that is now a paperweight due to 2 abrupt power outs.

    At least you have your backup. Right? Right?
    post edited by bapu - 2008/07/11 15:26:11
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    bapu
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 15:08:11 (permalink)
    I do software/data backups and I have hardware backups (mobo, psu, video etc). It's cheaper (IMHO) than UPS. Yes, there is the danger of losing a project when/if disaster strikes but I'll assume when that happens I'll have bigger fish to fry than the song(s) in process.

    No UPS planned here (especially augmented by Frank's and Mike's expoerience).
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    krizrox
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 15:25:21 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Susan G

    Hi-

    I need to get a UPS and am only familiar with APC units since that's what my company uses. There's one at Amazon here, but I don't really know what I'm looking for/at.

    All suggestions welcome!

    Thanks-

    -Susan


    That is similar to the APC model I have and it works fine. I've had mine for about a year now and it has already paid for itself. I've had a few blackouts here (had another one about a week ago) and was able to shut down with time to spare. You don't need anything more than this for a simple PC/monitor DAW setup. I went through a few different models from Best Buy/Circuit City before getting this one (at least one unit was defective right out of the box).

    I didn't notice an increase in my electricity bill but I wasn't really paying that close attention. Seems like our energy costs have gone up for reasons not related to the purchase of a UPS.

    Larry Kriz
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    krizrox
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 15:29:14 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Susan G

    Thanks for all the great feedback!

    I'm probably going to keep doing what I'm doing, which is to shut down/unplug when I know nasty weather is approaching. I can shut down my PC remotely from work, which is better than nothing.

    The inquiry was really more for my Dad than me. He's in Florida and they've had some pretty violent storms lately. His modem and PC got zapped by a lightning strike recently (although his electricity stayed on, oddly enough) and he asked me what I use . I had an episode recently that blew out only my NIC card, so I was wondering for myself, too.

    Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. Is there something that specifically protects against "zaps" like these (without causing a fire hazard itself?)?

    I'll pass along a synopsis of what you all say and see where he wants to go from there.

    Thanks again-

    -Susan


    One of those entry level APC UPS models will work fine for your dad. Money well worth spent if you ask me. My daughter's PC got killed by a lightning strike recently (only took out the power supply which was easily replaced). She's on a UPS now. This global warming is killing our stuff

    Larry Kriz
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    losguy
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 16:01:08 (permalink)
    Wow, no UPS fires here (knock on wood!). Something that may help is to test your UPS more or less regularly (say, once a month). Just pull the UPS plug from the wall / turn off the outlet, and let it do its thing. If it works and it's not getting warm, then it's probably OK. If not, then it's time to replace the battery and/or the whole UPS.

    I had an old Belkin UPS that would not hold a charge. The battery would just get hot, and then on power-out it would just die. On a lark, I looked up the battery for it online, and when I found a replacement for $16, I figured "What the heck?" I got it, just to see if changing the battery would fix it. It did, just like new (again, knock on wood). It's currently pulling duty as backup power for my internet phone modem.

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    jacktheexcynic
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 18:48:43 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Beagle
    the only way to protect your equipment from lightning strikes is to unplug it from the power completely.


    indeed. on a slightly related note, if you daisy chain a UPS with a surge protector with the surge protector first in line from the wall socket, the UPS typically won't work very well. at least that's been my experience with the mid-level APC units.

    - jack the ex-cynic
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    Cromberger
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 19:46:04 (permalink)
    Hi, Susan,

    Interesting thread, and lots of good, informative answers.

    One more thing I'd like to add is that if you (or your dad--or anyone else reading this) live in an area where the power goes out regularly, it can really shorten the life of the batteries in your UPS. I live in the boonies and I'm on a rural electric co-op. The power in my area goes off many times during the year, especially during the winter, when snow downs the power lines, etc.. The outages can last from a minute or less to several hours and even a day. If the power happens to go out in the middle of the night while you're asleep (which it does frequently here), and you can't hear the buzzer in the UPS going off, it'll run until the battery simply dies out. Between my wife and I, we've replaced a whole lot of UPS batteries over the years which gets expensive after awhile. Turning off the PC every time you walk away is helpful, of course, but that gets old, too. ;>) And, no, I don't use the software that came with my UPS units.

    But, one thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread (except peripherally by WaveScape) is that some UPS's provide regulated power. This is a worthwhile feature if you (or your dad) live in an area where power outages/fluctuations are common. Where there are outages, there are usually large power fluctuations, too. Giving your PC regulated power does extend it's life under these conditions. And, WaveScape is right: You really should have sine wave power regulation, not "simulated sine wave". This means a much more expensive UPS, of course.

    If you're simply looking for good spike suppression, there's tons of devices available that will accomplish that. The higher the Joule rating, the better, as someone else has already mentioned. But, even with good spike suppression, a close lightening strike will probably take out any electronics that are plugged into a wall socket. I've lost two TV's and a variety of other electronic devices over the years to nearby lightening strikes (one hit the power pole between my neighbor's house and my house as I stood looking out the window. Quite, um, spectacular----and scary). As for me, nowadays I just go around the house and unplug any and all electronic equipment that is plugged into a wall socket at the first sign of T-storms. Even this isn't fool-proof, as others have said, but it's the safest thing I've found so far. ;>)

    Best regards,
    Bill

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/11 20:12:05 (permalink)
    I'm sorry to here about those hard drive failures.
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    mwd
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    RE: OT: Recommended UPS/backup unit? 2008/07/12 11:01:33 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: bapu ~ At least you have your backup. Right? Right?


    Nope. This was the drive that made a backup nerd out of me. I now design backup systems for our company. It was actually a MFT corruption due to hard outs. The reason I'm always looking at it is I am slowly recovering the files onto another disk. (grandkids... 4 billion photos ya' know and a zillion songs from my CD collection).

    I bought a commercial APC UPS from a hospital in Canada on eBay. Cost more for shipping than the unit. 35 bucks plus 70 bucks shipping. Originally this APC cost 1800 bucks when it came out. Spent another 75.00 on new batteries. This unit goes into one grounded wall plug and chains into every device in my studio. This powers 2 computers, one with dual monitors, Tascam DAW, triple pre-amps, 2 effects boxes, headphone system, powered monitors, dual mixers, a drum machine, TV and 2 printers... one being laser.

    The load phase hardly budges until my sweetheart would power on the laser printer then it would a little bit.

    We have lost power and not missed a beat. Didn't have to rush to shut stuff down. I estimate I can comfortably shut stuff down and then operate the computer alone for 30 minutes or so.

    Point being this was a 180.00 solution that has operated without a glitch for 5 years. Ever 2 years I spend 75 bucks for new batteries. My studio voltage is rock solid, and signal chain is dead silent and if a storm comes up I unplug one plug.


    post edited by mwd - 2008/07/12 11:25:19
    #30
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