vomitgod
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OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
I'm tracking a very dynamic drummer with a 57 on her snare. When she hits the snare with a stick, it sounds fine, but when she plays on it with mallets (snares off) or plays rim clicks, they sound fuzzy and/or almost distorted, although the signal level is fine. I've tried moving the mic around a bit, swapping cables, etc. but that only lessens/augments the problem.
I'm trying to discern if this is normal 57 behavior, or if the mic might be damaged (it has been dropped once)? I'm assuming that the mic is acting accordingly - when she hits the snare hard, it sounds true. Signal path: 57 = Monster XLR = FirePod (stand-alone mode as mic pre only) = Echo Layla 3G.
I think I'm getting enough rim click in the overheads to live with, but does anybody out there have suggestions for a suitable snare replacement mic? Something more dynamic?
Thanks!
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jaydrake
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 09:48:16
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SM 57 is my snare drum mic of choice. I have one '57 that made a rattle kind of noise because the black plastic sleeve on the end vibrated. I simply taped it up so that it wouldn't make noise..... it's something you might wanna check.
Jay Drake www.drums2b.com Win XP Professional Sonar 8.53 Asus A8V Deluxe w/Athlon 64 X2 4800+ 2 Gig DDR 400 Ram RME Hammerfall 9652 2 UAD-1's, version 4.8 MTPAV usb Midi Interface 10k rpm sata Audio Drive ATI Radeon 9200SE 128MB Dual
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vomitgod
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 10:02:18
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Thanks for the advice, Jay. I can't believe I never thought to tape the mic (I have some black electrical tape I can try this evening).
In the meantime, I think a year or two ago when I had this problem, I plugged in a SM58 to try instead, and experienced similar results to the 57 (an odd "fuzzy" sound re: rim clicks). So perhaps I do need a more dynamic mic?
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skullsession
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 10:03:14
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I like the Senn 421 on snare. I also have been known to use it in tandem with an Oktava 012 to add a little extra sizzle.
But to your problem....
Jay may have hit on the solution. But I have to ask. Are you mounting to the drum with a claw, or are you using a free-standing mic stand for the snare mic?
AND....the obvious, but I have to ask.....did you listen to the drum in the room with mallets? Is it buzzing? Are her snares REALLY disengaged, or are they still partially in contact with the head when the lever is thrown?
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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vomitgod
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 10:11:45
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ORIGINAL: skullsession
But to your problem....
Jay may have hit on the solution. But I have to ask. Are you mounting to the drum with a claw, or are you using a free-standing mic stand for the snare mic?
AND....the obvious, but I have to ask.....did you listen to the drum in the room with mallets? Is it buzzing? Are her snares REALLY disengaged, or are they still partially in contact with the head when the lever is thrown?
All good questions. The SM57 is mounted to the snare with (I believe it's a Shure series) claw. I can try experimenting with a stand this evening - in addition to taping the mic. Yeah - it would definitely be obvious - the snares are totally disengaged. The "fuzzy" sound happens with either rim clicks (snares on/off makes no difference) or when mallets are used. It seems like the 57 is great at picking up loud snare hits, but dynamic things like rolls, mallets, rim clicks, et. all don't sound good and/or natural.
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Bonzos Ghost
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 11:46:26
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Hmmm....well, if it's not something rattling/buzzing, then maybe your 57 has seen better days. Bad connection either in mic or mic cable....or at the other end of the chain. Something's guilty. An SM57 is a proven workhorse mic for drums and guitar amps for years. I'm sure it's not crapping out because of a hot signal. That shouldn't be an issue at all if the mic isn't damaged.
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tubeydude
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 13:03:18
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Now that you have heard the sound over your monitors go in there right next to the drums while she is using the mallets and see if there is anything causing that sound. Check that the snare stand locks are all tight. Is the snare head tuned and uniformly tight? Is another drums sympathetically vibrating and bleeding into the 57? Is she using a damping ring on the snare? Try removing it if she is. If those rings are not totally flat I've heard them make fuzzy generally not happy sounds. Make sure the claw mount is as tight as possible. Try a separate stand.
If your 57 is picking up the loud snare hits just fine, then it is likely just fine. The problem here is that now that your source is not as loud your background noise is more apparent. It has always been there, it's just more noticeable now. You'll track the source down with a little investigation?
Good luck...
Erik
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instantdan
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 18:28:13
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ORIGINAL: jaydrake
SM 57 is my snare drum mic of choice. I have one '57 that made a rattle kind of noise because the black plastic sleeve on the end vibrated. I simply taped it up so that it wouldn't make noise..... it's something you might wanna check.
If you end up taping the mic be careful not to tape over the vents around the diaphram. That'll screw with the directional characteristics. ed: I think your problem is the mount.
post edited by instantdan - 2007/11/20 18:40:45
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contact@jondunn.org
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 18:34:30
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billruys
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 20:58:41
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ORIGINAL: contact@jondunn.org
throw the SM57 in the nearest stagnant pond, and after the ripples settle, see if you can toss the 58 even further
then look at the mighty might Audix ADX90
http://www.music123.com/Audix-ADX-90-Clip-on-Condenser-Microphone-270686-i1126737.Music123?source=ZWWRWXX2
amazing response for little price, brushwork, sticks mallets, chopsticks.....
best of luck,
-JD
I kinda agree that if the material isn't typical rock and your drummer is doing things with mallets and rim hits, the SM57 may not be the best mic for the job. The 57 gets you that perennial rock sound, but it's a bit of a one trick pony on snare. I'd also suggest that you don't place your mic too close to the batter head of the drum, as you'll tend to get more overtone and less fundamental tone. Try moving it off the head by a few inches.
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mudgel
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/20 22:34:47
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To help you trouble shoot, do the following:
Record another percussive instrument, using the 57 as the mic. If you still get the fuzz its the 57 if not look at the snare itself.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/21 08:46:45
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I've never heard a Snare that fully *disengaged*. Snare resonance is the bane of my existence... in fact I use a D.I.Y. isolation box (actually it's a closet) to store my snare when my house kit isn't actively being played. When visitors come over... I have to bite my lip and be polite but try to make the snare go away when we are working on something else. I'd suspect the snare before I suspect the mic... unless you know you have beaten the crap out of it. Also I would NEVER use a drum shell/rim mount clip... especially if you're gonna listen critically to the drums afterward. And finally... I'd ask you how do your current takes sit in the mix... superflous snare buzz is such a regular part of life that sometimes it sits in the mix in a very natural or familiar manner. best, mike edit spelling
post edited by mike_mccue - 2007/11/21 08:50:06
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vomitgod
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/21 09:14:44
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Thanks to all for your comments!
Last night I experimented with taping the bottom of the 57 diaphragm (between the cartridge and the logo) with electrical tape, and interestingly got the exact OPPOSITE results - rim clicks and mallets sounded clean and clear, but loud snare hits sounded fuzzy. When I removed the tape, it went back to recording dynamic signals fuzzy, and loud snare hits seemingly fine.
To surmise, I think the diaphragm on the 57 is slightly and/or seriously damaged due to either dropping it or seven years of wear and tear.
The snare drum, snares, etc. are all in pristine condition. The "fuzz" sound is almost certainly not snare buzz or vibration from the rim mount clip.
I'm considering a new 57, or maybe trying an Audix ADX90 as a replacement (same cost as the 57 at local Guitar Center). Any suggestions for other suitable replacements for a 57?
Thanks again!
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skullsession
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/21 10:07:53
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Word of advice.....in my opinion.....
I've got 5 of those Audix ADX90's. They've been in my closet now for a couple of years. I recently listed them on Craig's List for $40 each. I'm trying to get rid of them. I'd gladly sell you one - or all of them if you'd like.
I hate them...and I've tried them on snare and toms. They're a condensor....and they say the SPL is 135db. I don't believe that for a second. They distort almost immediately, and they're pretty bad about bleed, etc. The diaphram cover screws on and they are constantly vibrating loose and they rattle - driving you CRAZY until you finally figure it out. PLUS...the little goosenecks that come with the mic are crappy. I had to use coathanger (bailing wire if you're in Kansas) wire to make them rigid enough to withstand the bouncing of the drum when hit. Mic placement moved constantly.
I'd suggest sticking to a decent cardioid dynamic mic. SM57. Audix i5. Senn 421. Like I said earlier. I like the Senn 421 on snare. It's big, and thrice the price....but it tends to catch more of the body of the snare for my taste.
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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DavidB
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/21 11:57:21
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I agree about the adx-90 sucking. I bought one a while back and returned in immediately after testing with it.. thought it was a bad one and got an exchange.. same problem. Sounded like a wet fart on the snare! Sorry for the imagery. I even posted a thred on the subject here, with sound clips.. before I returned it.. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=800309&mpage=1&key=adx
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/21 12:08:04
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"The "fuzz" sound is almost certainly not snare buzz"
How do you know this?... I respectfully ask.
Have you actually gotten your head/ear down near the mic position?
I'd recomend another 57... or the 421.
best,
mike
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vomitgod
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/21 12:15:40
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ORIGINAL: mike_mccue
"The "fuzz" sound is almost certainly not snare buzz"
How do you know this?... I respectfully ask.
Have you actually gotten your head/ear down near the mic position?
Mike: I tried all kinds of tests last night, most of which involved either moving/re-angling the 57, moving the clip, or physically holding/dampening the snares. In addition to playing the role of engineer, I'm also a drummer so I'm pretty sure I've tried everything to ensure it's not the head, rim, or snares of the drum that are the problem. The drummer is also using moongels to rid overtones, etc. Thanks for asking, regardless. If I do more tests, I may post results so you can hear the actual sound - it's hard to describe (other than saying it sounds fuzzy and/or distorted), but it's definitely not the snares. It looks like I'm going to pickup a new 57 and compare with the old one to further troubleshoot.
post edited by vomitgod - 2007/11/21 12:28:05
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skullsession
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/21 12:28:00
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ORIGINAL: DavidB
I agree about the adx-90 sucking. I bought one a while back and returned in immediately after testing with it.. thought it was a bad one and got an exchange.. same problem. Sounded like a wet fart on the snare! Sorry for the imagery.
I even posted a thred on the subject here, with sound clips.. before I returned it..
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=800309&mpage=1&key=adxóƒ
Mmmmmmm..........WET FART!! Deeeelish!!!
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/21 12:33:04
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Well that's good enough for me... as if that mattered :-).
I guess I've just never heard a Snare that didn't buzz a little... usually the drums overpower it and no one notices. :-)
best regards,
mike
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contact@jondunn.org
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/23 12:21:39
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hey Hook, can I buy those ADX's from you amigo you must be recording some hard rock, as with Jazz drummers they have been outstanding -JD my email: jondunnmusic@gmail.com
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krizrox
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/23 15:49:18
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ORIGINAL: vomitgod
Thanks to all for your comments!
Last night I experimented with taping the bottom of the 57 diaphragm (between the cartridge and the logo) with electrical tape, and interestingly got the exact OPPOSITE results - rim clicks and mallets sounded clean and clear, but loud snare hits sounded fuzzy. When I removed the tape, it went back to recording dynamic signals fuzzy, and loud snare hits seemingly fine.
To surmise, I think the diaphragm on the 57 is slightly and/or seriously damaged due to either dropping it or seven years of wear and tear.
The snare drum, snares, etc. are all in pristine condition. The "fuzz" sound is almost certainly not snare buzz or vibration from the rim mount clip.
I'm considering a new 57, or maybe trying an Audix ADX90 as a replacement (same cost as the 57 at local Guitar Center). Any suggestions for other suitable replacements for a 57?
Thanks again!
Well, it sounds like you've zeroed in on the problem but I would borrow/try another mic before passing judgment. In any event, I've been using Electrovoice ND468's for snare recording for years. I love those mics. They sound great and they are designed in a way that you can sneak them in just about anywhere. Good luck!
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
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contact@jondunn.org
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/23 16:44:20
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hey Hook, your email box is full man??
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Bonzos Ghost
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/23 16:51:59
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ORIGINAL: vomitgod
Last night I experimented with taping the bottom of the 57 diaphragm (between the cartridge and the logo) with electrical tape, and interestingly got the exact OPPOSITE results I'd say the electrical tape must be out of phase with either the cartridge or the logo. 
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skullsession
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/24 01:06:54
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ORIGINAL: contact@jondunn.org
hey Hook, your email box is full man??
I just hit you back with an email. Yeah...I do mostly pretty heavy rock bands. Can't handle the SPL's. Would probably work well for quieter sound sources....I could see that being the case. We'll talk....
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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vomitgod
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/26 10:00:25
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ORIGINAL: instantdan
ed: I think your problem is the mount.
You were right! After some additional and significant testing, I believe the rim mount clip (I think it is Shure brand) was the culprit! I now have the 57 w/no tape on a small boom stand, and it sounds clean and clear. FWIW, the rim mount was on with all joints extremely tight (as to avoid any vibration). After hearing the immediate difference, I doubt I'll ever put my faith in rim mount clips ever again. Thanks again to all for comments/advice. I'm sticking with my 57! :)
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krizrox
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/26 12:37:57
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I only use rim mount clips as a last resort. Glad you found the solution!
I use those LP Claw clamps and they seem to work well. But I only use them when a regular stand is out of the question.
Larry Kriz www.LnLRecording.com www.myspace.com/lnlrecording Sonar PE 8.5, Samplitude Pro 11, Sonic Core Scope Professional/XTC, A16 Ultra AD/DA, Intel DG965RY MOBO, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz processor, XFX GeForce 7300 GT PCIe video card, Barracuda 750 & 320GB SATA drives, 4GB DDR Ram, Plextor DVD/CD-R burner.
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skullsession
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RE: OT - SM57 Snare Mic Rim Clicks Sound "Fuzzy"
2007/11/26 13:46:58
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I use the LP Claw every time that I can get it to fit and have never had any issues with buzzing, but I can see how something could be wrong with one of those joints causing it to vibrate - which I exactly why I intially asked if you were using a claw or a free-standing mic stand. It seemed to me that it could be part of the issue - and removing the mic and cable from contact with the drum could yield different results.
I wonder why you couldn't hear it vibrate when you were in the room listening for it?
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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