OT: Studio Construction

For the wall, I would sandwich the vinyl sound barrier between a layer of 1/2 drywall and 5/8 firecode drywall and use liquid nails for the adhesive. Don't use any real nails or screws except to attach the first layer of drywall. The R-13 insulation won't do much to stop sound transfer But the wall isn't your only problem. You've got to deal with sound escaping through the floor and ceilling as well.

Visit the forums at www.johnlsayers.com and you will find ton a information and lots of good advice.

I am by no means an acoustic architect, but I have isolated a few rooms over the years.

A decent rule of thumb is that anywhere you have light leakage, you'll also have sound leakage.

A "room within a room" (double walls with an airlock) is probably your best bet.

Drop ceilings and standard insulation will probably not do much to stop sound escaping.

Consider air spaces between the walls.

You also may want to consider further isolation by using a "resilient" channel in which to mount your surfaces to.
Adding this can result in stopping noise transmission...substantially... as much as up to 50%. Basically what you are trying to do is to isolate the drywall from the studs. Anywhere you have studs directly meeting wall surfaces, you are giving sound a very easy conduit to travel through.


Windows, doors, and even utility entrances can prove to be problematic. Consider double doors with an airlock.
Having windows is nice... especially if you are going to be in there for long periods of time... but isolating them is a ****.
You may want to make removeable isolation panels to fit over windows...soemthing that can be taken down when you are doing editing or mixing, but that can be put back up during tracking.

I'll just mention one thing here, and you've probably thought of it already... but how is your area zoned?
Are you certain that you may not run into problems with any local restrictions?

Are your neighbors cool? Are there any that would complain at the very first occurence of any noise coming from the building, whatsoever?

This generally becomes more of a problem if you start a commercial operation and start having clients actually park their cars, recording later at night, etc., but you should check into this.

If you have pulled permits to do the construction and you have presented the project on the permit as a "garage" or other "utility out building" and they find out at some point that you are actually running a business, you might run into trouble.

On the other hand, if all is in line legally, zone-wise, etc.... you are building a very cool thing!

Nothing cooler than having a studio in your own back yard.


Just a few thoughts.

Good luck.

LOL...good point.

While we go to great lengths to achieve the best iso we can, suffocation is not an option.

On that note, you may want to consider a heating/AC duct that is flexible, as opposed to sheet metal which has a tendency to "bang" a bit when heat or air is turned on.

I have no idea if it's up to code or not, but one facility that I owned and had construction done on, we used a plastic duct work... it resembled a big dryer vent hose. It was pretty much silent when the air kicked on.

But you should check on whether this is feasible and/or up to local codes.

-D.

Ummm what's a permit?

You know, Midi, it's that little piece of paper that stops them from shutting you down or making you tear down the building you just finished??

LOL

Basement projects and remodels are easier to get away with. Nobody can see ya...

But a big ass building/construction project in your back yard might draw a wee bit of attention.

And.....it depends on local codes and enforcement.

He might get by... perhaps his locale is forgiving about that stuff or better yet, don't care at all.

I know he probably wouldn't get away with it here in Northeast Ohio though, unless he was located in a really rural area where people build barns and garages all the time.

In my area, there are actually "spotters" that drive around and look for unauthorized projects... decks, additions, even window replacement and vinyl siding. If they catch you, they can red tag your whole house... come in, inspect, and if one thing ... one outlet isn't up to code, they start making a list. Bastards.


... and nope, I ain't kiddin' either..

it is... but local government here is Democrat.

And it's not a state wide thing either. Codes ( and enforcement of such) vary by county.

Hi, Donny. Thanks for the information. We're considering the addition of the resilient channel. Hopefully the staggered studs, double drywall, dampeneing glue, resilient channel will all come together the way it needs to. Do you happen to have an opinion regarding the Green Glue vs. the Quiet Glue? Any experience with the mass loaded vinyl?

And yes, the doors and windows do appear to be a significant challenge. Wish we could have a double door setup, but it's just not in the cards.

Thanks, again, for your help!

Ed

Hi all,

Ed- The Green Glue is $14.79 a tube. There is a significant difference between Quiet Glue and Green Glue. Midi is right about the Quiet Rock construction. It's a great product, however you can also consider building your own damped walls with either Quiet Glue or Green Glue.

I would point out that a staggered or double stud wall is already decoupled. Adding clips, channels or furring strip will really not further decouple it from any practical standpoint.

Mass loaded vinyl is a great source of mass. So is drywall. I would encourage anyone looking to spend good money on an isolation product to look at the transmission loss data, especially in the low frequencies where we all have the greatest potential problems.

The data is out there.

Hi Ed,

You are off to a great start with the decoupled staggered stud walls. This framing method limits the mechanical conduction of drywall-stud-drywall.

This decoupled system now acts like a spring, oscillating in and out, and will benefit from more mass. Why? More mass will drive down the primary resonance point of the assembly. I would stick to drywall for mass. It's a lot cheaper than MLV. Use insulation (I like fiberglass) to further drive down the resonance point.

The drywall paneled wall system will still resonate and drive that vibration through the wall between the studs. To significantly reduce this, you need to damp the panels themselves. This is what QuietRock and Supress do, and what you can do for a bit less with Quiet Glue or Green Glue. As you said, Ed, Green Glue has a higher damping capacity.

ORIGINAL: Ed Evans

Hi, Marc. Thanks for the response! We took a look at the QuietRock and, as I'm sure you know, there are a few versions of it. Of course, the one that catches my eye is the 545. Which one did you go with?

I bought about 10 sheets of 525. It runs about $70 a sheet. By the time I learned about the product, I had most of my studio drywalled already. I'm using the Quiet rock on the ceiling of my live room and in a couple other spots. All of my rooms are floated double stud walls with two sheets of drywall on each side, so I should be fine.

We're also considering a small experiment. We were thinking of building out one of the iso booths with walls consisting of drywall, green glue, and tile backer board. In this experiment, we will probably not use resilient channel. If this proves to be effective, I think the total cost will be less than half of the QuietRock 545 solution (which sells for about $170 per sheet.)

I think if you use something like 1/2" tile backer(probably Hardibacker) and 5/8" drywall with the green glue, you'll probably have something just as good or better than the QuietRock 545. Are you planning to glue your layers together first or apply the tile backer to the wall and glue on the drywall? I would imagine the latter will get you a few extra STC points. I would really like to know how this works out for you. Eventually, I am going to soundproof a dedicted production room and would like to try this method also.

Good luck with your project! I hope I have helped.

Hi Ed,
I work in acoustics as a profession, and appreciate your ambition, so I wanted to donate some pointers to the project. First, composite (sandwich) drywall products can work better than drywall, but typically they are used only when space is a constraint. And, they don't necessarily clean up the low frequencies, where I'm sure your neighbors will be most irritated. In other words, don't waste the money on them for this purpose. CMU walls work great, especially with furred out gypsum walls and a big airspace, and batts in the cavity. However, concrete construction is a big undertaking. Probably the easiest to install would be double-studs (don't bother with staggered studs when double-studs have better low frequency insulation and don't cost too much more space) - stucco on ply exterior, two to three layers interior holding any resilient surface a quarter inch from another surface. Make sure you fill the cavity with batts to damp resonance dips in the transmission loss of the wall. For the most part, resilient channels, or better yet clip systems, don't add a significant reduction, except in the case that they can smooth out a nothcy TL curve. It is overkill, but hey, why not right? I wouldn't worry about the type of glue you use; however, use acoustical caulk which won't harden. If you don't need windows, don't put them in. Access doors are also tough. You'll want a vestibule with two doors, one to the vestibult, one to the studio. Continuous hinge metal doors are best, but heavy and expensive. Next best is probably solid wood. In either case, you'll need full perimeter gasketing, like dual airtight smoke seals, and a moritsed drop bottom on flat threshold. It must be airtight. Ventilation will be tough. Do not put a fan on the structure, put it on the ground sufficiently far from the room, and run flex connections to a highly sound absorptive plenum that dumps the air in slowly. Low velocities equals low noise. You'll need a return or exhaust plenum, but it can be passive. The mechanical work is the trickiest to deal with. Don't use electrical boxes in the walls if you can help it. I'd float a floor on 1-inch thick neoprene, and hang two to three layers of rock for the ceiling on springs that nail to the sides of the joists, you'll want double joists, just like the double studs. At any rate, this will provide excellent low and mid frequency transmission loss and keep your neighbors happy. Don't forget about the interior acoustics though. Why ruin such a good room with bad diffusion and absorption? Hope this helps.

browntimg, thanks a lot for your response. If you get a second, will you please take a quick look at the post I just made a couple of minutes ago? We're somewhat stymied at this point and we need to make a final decision on the wall construction. Any suggestions you have regarding how we can take what we have built so far and make the best room out of it would certainly be appreciated. The other post describes the current environment and what we percieve our options to be.

Everyone please feel to add to the discussion, please!

Thanks, again, for taking the time to help out!

Ed

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the cavities full of foam.