OldTimerNewComer
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O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
"The "What's the best?" Paradox"
...I guess the closest I can get to an accurate description of what I am asking is a "music policy" question.
Many of the posts I read on the Sonar forum include statements of preference regarding
products offered by Sonar, another DAW provider or 3rd party software developer similar to:
1."I think "X" is better than "Y" for function "Z"".
2."I don't really care for "X", I use "Y" for function "Z"" within the SAME parent program(e.g. Sonar).
I submit that once, for example a Drum Sampler's in my hands, it's "Mel's Drumkit"- no longer AD2 or Session Drums or Steven Slate, because I tweak the hell out of everything I get to try for a unique sound.
Ultimately that ability is what we are being sold; there is only one Steven Slate.
And I don't see brand names when I'm working.
In effect,
it's what I got
to do the thing I'm doin'
the best I can right now.
How good AD2 is, or how any other softsynth/FX/etc. sounds is completely up to the user; unless you only use stock sounds straight outta the box.
This opinion is tempered by the fact that the first song I ever sold(certified gold)
was a 15 ips "sound on sound" reel to reel, the "drums" were a ghetto bbQ grill,
with and without a towel,
A bass with three 2 year old strings...
and "bouncing" was done with razor blades.
Looking forward to any thoughts/opinions/tips.
Peace.
Mel
Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory setting. AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video. Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software). WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4. Windows 10 Pro Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update ________________________________________ Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it. My Stuff: https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
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Anderton
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 18:35:34
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I agree that a real musician will make music if all they have is a rubber band. But sometimes we have "chemistry" with a particular device or program; they just "feel" right...the same as there are certain guitars that play smooth as butter, while others don't have the same ease of playing.
For example the first time I tried Rapture, I fell in love with it...all those step-sequenced possibilities and modulations! But there are way more z3ta+ 2 users, which doesn't float my boat the same way Rapture does. So is Rapture better? No, I just find it suits what I want to do better.
Ultimately, yes, we do make instruments our own when we bend them into sonic pretzels. But the raw materials we have to work with often predict the kind of pretzels we can make.
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Beepster
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 18:44:48
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It is definitely about the journey and making the best with what is at hand. Everything makes noise and therefore has the possibility of being turned into music (and many have posited that the noise of life is the purest form of music).
However... an elastic band stretched between two nails on a broomstick and a mic pointing at them likely aren't going to be as good as an ESP going through a Rectifier to lay down some metal tracks.
Conversely that guitar through that amp won't sound as good as that mic'd rubber band on a stick if I'm trying to capture the sound of a rubber band on a stick.
Then of course there is useability and versatility of the tools. I'll probably be able to get more range out of the guit and amp than that ole elastic band even using them for stuff that they may not have been designed to do.
To sum up...
Meh... whatever works.
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dubdisciple
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 18:45:04
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The answer to "what's the best....?" is always whatever works for you. i get annoyed when people insist Sonar "(or any other product) "cannot do [insert task or genre]". I work in a studio part time where many have never heard of Sonar, but ever since i took an artist's songs home to mix and it came out sounding cleaner and more polished than anything else mixed in the studio, I have been flooded with requests to mix other artists tracks at home too from the same people who thought Sonar was not good for their genre of music.
Being that i work with a lot of genres and mix in Logic and Sonar, I see daily examples of your question ending up being my answer. I concede it is obvious that if one were making something like EDM or Hip-Hop with just stock plug-ins in a DAW the instant gratification factor may be less with Sonar, but i don't see that as a case of "best" but a tradeoff and a challenge in some cases. before i got geist for drums, I figured out plenty of workarounds for using SD3 that helped me in the long run .
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Beepster
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 18:45:52
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Why did I just say pretty much the exact same thing Craig did?
...
I think it's dinner time.
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dubdisciple
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 18:59:52
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I happen to be aq big fan of mic'ed rubber bands
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bapu
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 19:04:43
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dubdisciple
I happen to be aq big fan of mic'ed rubber bands
That's what everyone says my Alembic Series I Bass sounds like.
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Beepster
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 19:15:03
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Vintage footage of the CHC performing live....  PS: I dig your bass tone, Baps.
post edited by Beepster - 2015/03/05 19:26:28
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drewfx1
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 19:29:54
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It's a reasoning error - "best" implies clear criteria for evaluation and/or "only one right answer" and those properties often don't apply.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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slartabartfast
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 19:55:43
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As you say, it is astonishing how much you can customize/program/deasign sounds in various plugins. So if someone is saying I like the smallsmokeyroominanatticunderthepoplartreeinhoboken setting that comes supplied with fabulouslyperfectconvolutionreverb V2.0.30.7, you know what he is talking about. When someone says I like the GrabYouByTheButt synth from Mellowerthanthou he is probably saying he finds it easy to use and likes most of the "presets." If he takes the trouble to program his own voices, then he probably means he finds it easy to program or that he finds the parameters available to him to program will allow him to produce the voices he wants. By implication you (OP) are saying most such A is better than B comments are uselessly ambiguous and opinionated. TRUE
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bapu
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 19:59:50
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I'm ambiguous but not on purpose.
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mettelus
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/05 22:09:12
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Drew's point is a good one, since if the topic is subjective, the term "best" only has application to the person speaking.
Presets seem to gravitate people and produce sales, since consumers want the instant gratification of money spent. However, it is often not the presets that stand out but how dynamic ("tweakable") something is to fit the situation as needed.
I used to teach argument, and always told students that the goal is not to convert the other person, but to get them to acknowledge your point. Written arguments are the highest challenge, since no one is required to read them at all. A big chunk of that is also 1) to acknowledge the other person's perspective and 2) include an opinion with a descriptive "why." An opinion without an explanation that the other finds useful carries zero weight.
So much marketing has used the word "best" that it has begun to lose meaning.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/06 04:10:26
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Great points all!
Thanks for chiming in...
I learn't some things today.
Mel
Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory setting. AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video. Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software). WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4. Windows 10 Pro Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update ________________________________________ Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it. My Stuff: https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
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subtlearts
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Re: O.T. :The "What's the best" Paradox
2015/03/07 11:42:39
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There's a wonderful anecdote in Kenny Werner's book "Effortless Mastery" about Bill Evans. He's talking about a birthday party, I think, for Bill where there are lots of great jazz pianists in attendance, and a few people play on the piano that's there, which is unfortunately rather thin and metallic sounding, but when Bill plays it sounds different - richer, warmer, fuller... the idea being of course that a true master can make any old barroom honky tonk piano sound like a Steinway concert grand.
Conversely, the genius of Thelonius Monk is that he could make a Steinway concert grand sound like any old barroom honky tonk... (but in a good way) ;)
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