artsoul
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OT uk forumites please read and sign
The UK government is attempting to make it a legal requirement for limiters to be installed in EVERY venue , this will severely infringe on both us the performers and for the audience please sign the petition below http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/NoNoiseControl/ I'd appreciate it if people kept this bumped and didn't jump in with the usual off topic comments etc. Thanks Andy
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Fog
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 05:37:37
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art.. it'll go thru regardless  it's a bit like the playlist thing dj's have to submit when dj'ing now.... if it = less money for them to spend on noise people or more revenue.. then they like that ish... bit like me paying £80 a year to park outside where I live , just for painting a few lines on the road.
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artsoul
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 05:42:38
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I used to work in a bar years ago and the council fitted limiters, the volume threshold was so low that playing music became pointless
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artsoul
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 05:44:28
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did you sign though fog?
I may be mistaken but I'm pretty sure we still live in a democracy
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Fog
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 05:45:22
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art.. where I live in London, didn't used have a wannabe nightclub... so you'd get them thumping out music AND then be sorting out the empty bottles at like 1am  on a friday night , when I work very early saturday.. so I see both sides of it...
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artsoul
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 05:50:28
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I do see both sides
venues and clubs should be issuing staff with earplugs by law and the venues that consistently disturb residents should be tackled but this is a blanket legislation that will stiffle ALL music playing places.
its a hammer to crack a nut
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John
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 06:05:19
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You have my sympathies on this. I bet its not to prevent ones neighbors from having a sleepless night but to prevent hearing loss. None the less its really a matter for each person to decide. Information should be give out then hands off. But then I am an American and I have a natural inclination toward freedom. 
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Bajan Blue
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 06:15:35
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I'm afraid this is yet another example of the nanny state the UK has become. One reason why I emigrated many years ago.
Sad
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gordonrussell76
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 06:35:59
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Yup, another example of the homogenization of our culture to suit the vocal minority.
Good example of this in microcosm. Local venue my band used to play in, only had live music on Friday and Saturday evenings, finished at 11 on the dot, (even though there licence allowed later) Over the years, 1000's of bands played there, and probably 10 of thousands enjoyed live music there, a reall asset to the community. Then a new resident moves into one of the flats in located above the venue, his choice. He then complained to the council, and becuase of there zero tolerance 1 complaint approach, the venue had its license for live music, taken away. So 1 person who was vocal, destroyed the entertainment and happiness of many, ridiculous.
I will be emigrating soon, this country is ridiculous, smoking ban, massively constrictive live music rules, about to get worse, they are targeting drinking next, and don't even start on the civil libeties we have lost thanks to the Civil Liberties act 10 years ago and the more recent 'anti terrorism' laws.
All of these measure are without fail an aim to homogenize and remove our power, they don't wish us to meet, talk, philosophize or think. Only activities which promote becomming brain dead are tolerated. I mean the impact of your average football match on teh surrounding community is far in excess of a music venue, but do they get banned no.
To paraphrase my own personal prophet Bill Hicks, Go to sleep England, heres Gladiators, Big Brother and X Factor, go to sleep you are free
Bring on the revolution.
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Jonbouy
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 06:42:18
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Blimey, I thought they were installed everywhere already but everyone bypassed 'em, shows how much I know. LOL, bring on the revolution, the nearest we get to that is when ol' 'disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' chimes in and even he's afraid of rocking the boat...  I think i'll just wait and see what happens...that's the English way...  I do remember however somebody claiming that they'd successfully sued a club for damage caused to his Marshall head because of the intermittent power supply when the limiter kept cutting in.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2009/01/21 06:49:24
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Jonbouy
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 06:51:57
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But then I am an American and I have a natural inclination toward freedom. Provided everyone does as they are told no doubt...
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Fog
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 06:58:56
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ORIGINAL: Bajan Blue
I'm afraid this is yet another example of the nanny state the UK has become. One reason why I emigrated many years ago.
Sad
but I'm sure there are aspects of where you live now that you don't agree with or that are restrictive, that goes for any country. Gordon as for the smoking ban etc. a lot of euro countries were ahead of us and where are they gonna get the tax from in the future , same with booze. Only thing I would like to see is one rule for all, if it affected the politicians then they might not be so quick to have another bright idea for making money. anyways, shouldn't be talking politics here.. 
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artsoul
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 07:42:04
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All good points
but if we start talking politics then the thread will get nasty and locked and will become useless
just a thought
Andy
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Bristol_Jonesey
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 07:47:47
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FWIW - signed.
Going back to the smoking ban - wasn't it the intention of the Government to persuade all those people who have never smoked to actually go out of their houses on a Friday/Saturday night and enjoy a smoke-free drink at their local?
The reality is of course that pubs are now shutting down at a rate of abvout 30 a week, and all the people who needed "protection" are still locked away in their own bio-cocoons.
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 07:56:21
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Gosh it's bad enough some Europeans are mandated to use Neutrik Speakon connectors.
We still have room... come on over :-)
best,
mike
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Cal
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 08:07:01
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Only played in one place with a limiter..... the owner smacked it with a hammer when he realised how useless it made live music (kept cutting the power ) Signed the list
Asus X53SR (vista x32), Motu 828 USB mk II, Alesis 3630 compressor, zoom 1200 reverb, Yamaha DTXpress 3, BFD2.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 08:33:53
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Hmmm.... Read this:
Fears that the UK government is about to impose nationwide noise restrictions at gigs appear to be driven by a hoax, NME.COM has learned.
Currently, one of the most signed petitions on the official Number 10 website relates to the government's alleged plans to introduce noise control measures at gigs and festivals.
The Facebook-initiated campaign urges music fans not to "Let the government cripple live music". However, it does not identify the source of the threat or any potential new legislation.
The petition has now collected over 64,000 signatures.
After NME.COM spoke to various Health and Safety representatives, it appears there the petition is a hoax.
A spokesperson for the Department Of Media, Culture And Sport told NME.COM, that while they were unable to speak for the government as a whole, there is currently "no universal plan to fit noise control devices, or any plans at all to fit them in the way described [by the petition]".
Meanwhile it has been pointed out by the Live Music Forum that there is no need to pass such a law as "local authorities have had the power to require venues to fit noise limiters" already.
They add: "Some local authorities may have abused their powers in this regard, however, enforcing noise limiters where they know licensees cannot afford to challenge them through the courts.
"It is worth campaigning against that, although in many ways that is already being done within the broader campaign to get small gigs out of the entertainment licensing regime altogether. The government has promised a public consultation on new exemptions for small gigs by the Spring."
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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jackn2mpu
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 08:34:44
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Help me to understand - do these limiters cut the actual AC mains power or the audio output? I know cutting AC can have an effect on sound (EVH did that with variacs) but I'm wondering if this is between the output of the amp and speakers?
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Tom F
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 09:53:54
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well ... is see this from a totally different perspective: i have a tinnitus since i am 15 (and i really hade some bad YEARS (!!) with it) because of excessive volume at a rock concert...
actually with that age i wasnt aware of such dangers - i would have used earplugs if i knew...
nowadays i think that those restrictions are more than usefull and should be regarded as a positive step... (Since we are talking about public spaces like pubs and clubs)
if people wanna get deaf they can still organize private dezibel-drag-races...
its a bit like the discussion about drinking or smoking - if i (non smoker non drinker) want to go to out in the evening i will smell of smoke later - i will probably get molested by some drunken idiot and eventually my ears will hurt from the loud music - now i ask you what is more likely to be the natural state of a human being: smoked drunk and deaf ???
actually i see no reason for getting constantly annoyed by all those negative factors others "cant avoid" exposing me to...
and excessive volume is certainly one of those...
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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The Maillard Reaction
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 10:04:55
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when people come out to my place they hang for a few hours and then they announce... "wow it's really quite out here".
I say "Isn't it".
It takes a while to notice that your brain is relaxing from not having to notice.
Or something like that.
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gordonrussell76
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 10:35:55
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Man I am so fed up of people wanting the government to protect them from everything, grow some. You don't like someone next to you smoking, ask them politely to stop. You might be very surprised by the fact that they probably will. You don't like loud music, communicate with the owner of the venue, work out a compromize. People seem to have lost the art of problem resolution, so now we need ligistlation for everything. Legislations should be the last resort when all other avenues have failed, not the knee jerk first resort. I don't want to live in that world.
post edited by gordonrussell76 - 2009/01/21 10:48:11
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artsoul
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 10:41:39
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ORIGINAL: gordonrussell76
Man I am so fed up of people wanting the government to protect them from everything, grow some.
You don't like someone next to you smoking, ask them politely to stop. You might be very surprised by the fact that they probably will.
You don't like loud music, communicate with the owner of the venue, work out a compromize.
People seem to have lost the art of problem resolution, so now we need ligistlation for everything.
I don't want to live in that world.
agreed 100% we are all capable of making our own decisions.
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Jonbouy
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 10:42:06
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ORIGINAL: jackn2mpu
Help me to understand - do these limiters cut the actual AC mains power or the audio output? I know cutting AC can have an effect on sound (EVH did that with variacs) but I'm wondering if this is between the output of the amp and speakers?
LOL - Generally they reduce noise by cutting the power supply that the whole band is using! The Band hits 96db or whatever they set the thing at and blam instant blackout!
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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gordonrussell76
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 10:44:51
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Its so unmusical, why could they not set the limiter to limit, Ie ride the volume and smooth out peaks so it never goes over a certain level.
That would make so much more sense.
G
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John
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 10:51:02
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i have a tinnitus since i am 15 (and i really hade some bad YEARS (!!) with it) because of excessive volume at a rock concert... Funny I think that I am a great deal older then you and still have very good hearing. The main reason is I did use ear plugs many years ago. I knew then loud noise were bad for ones hearing. It became common knowledge around the 60s. In the Army I was issued ear plugs. So was everyone else that was in. Now in combat I didn't use them but I had them. In concerts I often put cigarette filters in to lower the noise. Often I stayed back too in areas that were not as loud. Still do. There is no reason for you not to have known.
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Tom F
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 10:54:15
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ORIGINAL: gordonrussell76
Man I am so fed up of people wanting the government to protect them from everything, grow some.
You don't like someone next to you smoking, ask them politely to stop. You might be very surprised by the fact that they probably will.
You don't like loud music, communicate with the owner of the venue, work out a compromize.
People seem to have lost the art of problem resolution, so now we need ligistlation for everything.
I don't want to live in that world.
so you start your assumption from the point of view that those disturbed by an unwanted immission are the ones who have to rely on the courtesy of the disturber? (smoke example) id say the more logical aproach would be to let the smoker ask all the others if he annyos them in first place... but as usual habits dont go that much with logic...its the same with the drunkards - they might not even realize how many people feel annoyed by their yelling, brawling, vomiting, and all that stuff... again: the point of refference should always be the polite, healthy and educated person not the one craving for this and that ignoring that his habits also have an affect to those who surround them... and for the example with the club: do you believe ANYONE would turn the music lower when id ask for it - you must be kidding...people in clubs are very often drunke (again...) and therefor the music has to be much louder... and since our world is such a horrid place where reason almost never wins over single interest of egoists we need a firm hand like my favourite philosophers john locke, david hume and thomas hobbes claimed - the leviathan who guides the amoprhous hordes of human masses
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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kp
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 10:54:58
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Because a limiter like that would only affect anything going through the PA, not those huge amps that guitarists have a tendency to make lots of noise with.
I've played at one venue with a noise limiter and it did spoil the evening because the PA would suddenly cut out leaving mainly drums and bass being heard - mind you, the guest violinist also spoilt the evening, so it wasn't entirely the fault of the limiter :-)
This proposed legislation isn't quite as bad as that requiring a dozen page form to be filled in before playing (yes, that's in the pipeline too), but combined with the recent changes to the licensing laws restricting live music (the "two in a bar" rule), not to mention the smoking ban and closure of two big central London venues in the last fortnight, live music is dying on its feet.
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Tom F
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 11:04:06
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ORIGINAL: John
i have a tinnitus since i am 15 (and i really hade some bad YEARS (!!) with it) because of excessive volume at a rock concert...
Funny I think that I am a great deal older then you and still have very good hearing. The main reason is I did use ear plugs many years ago. I knew then loud noise were bad for ones hearing. It became common knowledge around the 60s. In the Army I was issued ear plugs. So was everyone else that was in. Now in combat I didn't use them but I had them. In concerts I often put cigarette filters in to lower the noise. Often I stayed back too in areas that were not as loud. Still do.
There is no reason for you not to have known.
john - actually it might have been known since the romans that loud noise is bad for your ears - but did you know back then what this REALLY could mean??? (i guess no) its a thing to say loud music can make you deaf and its another thing to be aware of getting insomnia and depression from it that could last for years - resulting in all kind of massive influence on normal daily habits on jobs and on money... actually your point here isnt a very good one - actually almost everything knowable and useful COULD be known by almost everyone - still - where is the this paradise on earth where all people behave consequently avaoiding dangers because they know better? (smoke, alcohol, other drugs, pollution, fat addiction, domestic violence....ebndless list...) we all know better - yet its almost of no use... if the guys at the rock concert back then must have known it too - still they cranked it all up...so i guess they jsut didnt care if peole might got hurt...and it was my first lesson in this field - and i paid a high price...
post edited by info@tomflair.com - 2009/01/21 11:06:39
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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John
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 11:05:57
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john - actually it might have been known since the romans that loud noise is bad for your ears - but did you know back then what this REALLY could mean??? (i guess no) Yes I did. That is why I used ear plugs. Why else would I? As for knowing better many do and still do it. There are people that do very dangerous things all the time. They know its hazardous. They want to do it. Ignorance isn't always the reason for behavior that is by nature deadly. I have talked to rock musicians that knew they were hurting their hearing but did so anyway. Others are of the same mindset. Then the young often believe even though they know better they are immortal. When I was in combat I thought I was safe from death. I wasn't but I thought so. That couldn't happen to me. Not on your life. The young often think that way. Was I aware of my mortality? You bet. It was only a faint thought that I suppressed. I was also very lucky.
post edited by John - 2009/01/21 11:19:55
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Tom F
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RE: OT uk forumites please read and sign
2009/01/21 11:12:04
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ORIGINAL: John
john - actually it might have been known since the romans that loud noise is bad for your ears - but did you know back then what this REALLY could mean??? (i guess no)
Yes I did. That is why I used ear plugs. Why else would I?
john are you kidding me? ask joe the plumber (ok - you are not him) what it really means to haver an accute hearing trauma ... the medical consequence and the longterm effects like hypeaccusis for example - hey thats a serious condition... i was adviced to wear earplugs too when i was in the army but - a rockconcert isnt a war... no one goes to concert thinking primarily how to avoid ruining almost his life..
...trying to be polite... quick temper...trying to be...
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