Odd Region FX issue

Hey guys,
 
Here's an odd one for me. If I do a Region FX edit (say tuning something with Melodyne), it works as intended. If I bounce down the clip, and then think "ah, I need to do a bit more work on it" then I can no longer get the Region FX to activate. I've noticed that they'll work fine on anything that says "Record nnn" as in tracks that haven't previously been bounced that have filenames, but after a bounce, the name is blank and I can't get anything to work on them.
 
Just throwing it out there on here first before I head to problem reporting to see if it's just me or not. It seems like something more people would have mentioned if it was widespread. Cheers!

That's a good workaround
 
I don't understand what could be so different about bounced clips, which are just WAVs at the end of the day, that's not letting Region FX activate. I do suspect this is all on my end though, so it might be time to bite the bullet and do that system upgrade / clean out I've been meaning to do for ages.

I'm thinking that the problem here is that you're expecting the region fx to still be in place.

When you bounce to clip it renders the region fx and removes it...

Unless you're trying to create a new region fx of the processed clip and it is failing to do so...? This would be an issue...

Can you talk a bit more about what you're trying to do and expecting?

Keni

Hey guys,
 
Let me explain more of what I'm doing, and I'll use Melodyne and a vocal track as the example.
 
I get my vocal track recorded. On the track, I can clearly see "Record nnn" for each take in the clip header. Nothing on there has been bounced to new clips or anything, just regular recording/edits.
 
I go through the clip and find certain phrases that might need some pitch correction, so I select that portion and do CTRL+M to load up Melodyne. Adjust as needed. You can clearly see that each one of those clips have Region FX in the clip header.
 
My machine is getting on a bit (this is being polite to it) so after about 4 or 5 edits, I prefer to go back in and bounce each Region FX clip to a new clip. If I don't do this then SONAR starts to become unstable for me. It's an acceptable workaround for me considering the low specs of the machine.
 
So I'll have a track which has the named "Record nnn" untouched takes with the bounced sections in there which no longer have any filename in the clip header.
 
I finish what I'm doing, listen back to the track as a whole and I think "You know, that first clip I adjusted could have been better" so I go to the bounced clip, do CTRL+M to activate Melodyne so that I can do some more work on it.
 
Things that I'm aware of at this point:
 
Since it was bounced, this is a NEW clip, so therefore it's got no Region FX on there that are editable (as you would have if you went to re-edit an existing Region FX clip) - I'm treating this as if this is just a regular clip that I want to adjust.
 
I'm also aware that each edit done like this is a destructive process that will introduce more artefacts and ideally I would still have the un-bounced Region FX clip that I could just re-adjust. I'm not really debating the sound quality of the clip after doing multiple generations of editing like this on it - it's subjective - but more so that I *should be able* to do this stuff if I feel I want to.
 
If I CTRL+M this clip, Melodyne will attempt to start up, it'll show in the Undo history that I've added Melodyne but nothing actually activates.
 
How I see it is that if you bounce any clip down to a new clip (either to commit any effects, edits or Region FX to it), that clip should actually be seen by SONAR as just another WAV that you can do further editing to, as if it was a recorded WAV rather than a bounced one.
 
But what I'm experiencing is that any bounced clip that no longer has a "Record nnn" name will fail to activate any new instances of Region FX when you try to add them.
 
As I mentioned, I really do suspect this is isolated to my machine, so if someone would like to give this a go to see if it works as intended for you, that'd be awesome 

Lord Tim
Hey guys,
 
Let me explain more of what I'm doing, and I'll use Melodyne and a vocal track as the example.
 
I get my vocal track recorded. On the track, I can clearly see "Record nnn" for each take in the clip header. Nothing on there has been bounced to new clips or anything, just regular recording/edits.
 
I go through the clip and find certain phrases that might need some pitch correction, so I select that portion and do CTRL+M to load up Melodyne. Adjust as needed. You can clearly see that each one of those clips have Region FX in the clip header.
 
My machine is getting on a bit (this is being polite to it) so after about 4 or 5 edits, I prefer to go back in and bounce each Region FX clip to a new clip. If I don't do this then SONAR starts to become unstable for me. It's an acceptable workaround for me considering the low specs of the machine.
 
So I'll have a track which has the named "Record nnn" untouched takes with the bounced sections in there which no longer have any filename in the clip header.
 
I finish what I'm doing, listen back to the track as a whole and I think "You know, that first clip I adjusted could have been better" so I go to the bounced clip, do CTRL+M to activate Melodyne so that I can do some more work on it.
 
Things that I'm aware of at this point:
 
Since it was bounced, this is a NEW clip, so therefore it's got no Region FX on there that are editable (as you would have if you went to re-edit an existing Region FX clip) - I'm treating this as if this is just a regular clip that I want to adjust.
 
I'm also aware that each edit done like this is a destructive process that will introduce more artefacts and ideally I would still have the un-bounced Region FX clip that I could just re-adjust. I'm not really debating the sound quality of the clip after doing multiple generations of editing like this on it - it's subjective - but more so that I *should be able* to do this stuff if I feel I want to.
 
If I CTRL+M this clip, Melodyne will attempt to start up, it'll show in the Undo history that I've added Melodyne but nothing actually activates.
 
How I see it is that if you bounce any clip down to a new clip (either to commit any effects, edits or Region FX to it), that clip should actually be seen by SONAR as just another WAV that you can do further editing to, as if it was a recorded WAV rather than a bounced one.
 
But what I'm experiencing is that any bounced clip that no longer has a "Record nnn" name will fail to activate any new instances of Region FX when you try to add them.
 
As I mentioned, I really do suspect this is isolated to my machine, so if someone would like to give this a go to see if it works as intended for you, that'd be awesome 

Ok... I'll try to do this tonight when I have access... Yes, it should be able to open the new clip as a Melodyne region... Though it would not have your old Melodyne edits available...

I think I would opt to freeze the track instead of bouncing the clips at this point, then bounce the clips after I'm happy with them all... Freeze dies work for this (afaik) though people have told me I'm not supposed to do this... At least that way your edits are still available and you don't have to repeat them... Or as I mentioned earlier, i clone the melodyned track then archive and hide it so I can return to the edits.... My preference these days...

Keni

I seem to remember that bounced clips appear with no name and I'm guessing that is to avoid confusion with the original... Though I would think an edited name with a marking to show it is a modified version would be a more elegant solution?

The workarounds (archived original in case I need to get access to unmodified files and frozen effected track) are great, but they're definitely things that can slow a session down dramatically when you're doing a lot of tuning work.
 
If I've got, say, 50 takes of a backing vocal choir that I'm tightening things up on, and I'm working through each layer to see what needs fixing (if anything - choirs are often best left untuned) then this is something that'd take forever to archive/freeze when it should be a case of "let's fix this quickly" and not worry that what you're doing is the last opportunity you have to work on it in that manner.
 
The other thing is too, if I've finished working on a tuned lead vocal track and I've bounced it all down, and then decide to do a vocal double and use VocalSync to tighten the timing up, then I'm kind of stuck if Region FX is busted.
 
Semi-related to this: I'm actually surprised that bounced clips have no name. Is that a normal thing? I've never noticed that before. It would make sense that it should say SOMETHING in there (Record nnn (bounced) or something?)
 
Anyway, really hoping this is just my installation that's the problem rather than a bug or a design choice because it's a bit annoying.

yeah, I've noticed since Melodyne was introduced with Sonar, that bounced Melodyne clips never had a name. i got in the habit of re-naming them right away so I could identify them correctly.
 

Just tested it then.
 
The rendered VocalSync file does indeed lose its clip name, however I'm able to start a new instance of VocalSync on it.
 
I'm NOT able to get Melodyne to activate on it though. If I undo back until it was its original Record nnn clip name, any Region FX works as expected.
 
Really weird!

I guess there is a reason that bounced clips don't have a name. What would you call it if you bounced several clips together into one clip, which I often do?

Best to leave it blank, IMO, and leave it up to the user.

Hey, Lord Tim - this just happened to me! Or a variation on it:
 
I have a set of double-tracked vocals. I decided to use VocalSynch, for kicks. Worked fine until I got to a set in which I had "bounce to clip" for whatever reason, I don't remember. But the clips had no name (that's how I know I bounced to clip at some point in the recent past).
 
Anyway, for these clips, VocalSynch refuses to "open the editor" or "create the FX Region" or whatever you want to call it. I get the progress bar; the clip flashes, then I'm left back in the Track View with no FX Region, and no editor window.
 
(By "editor window" I just mean the floating control panel with the "intensity" knob.) 
 
If I try a second time, same thing.
 
If I use the Inspector to give the clip a name, it makes no difference. Still no editor.
 
I then saved then entire project to another folder and closed and re-opened SONAR. I successfully opened a V-Vocal "region FX" and made an edit. But VocalSync refuses to open on this clip. I have no idea why.
 

FWIW I think the reason bounced clips aren't named is because if you bounce multiple clips, the program won't know which of the clip names to adopt. But I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't want an individual bounced track to retain its existing name.

I've reproduced this issue by reducing the size of my project to minimum, and attaching it to newly submitted problem report, CWBRN-32387.

Anderton
FWIW I think the reason bounced clips aren't named is because if you bounce multiple clips, the program won't know which of the clip names to adopt. But I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't want an individual bounced track to retain its existing name.

I wouldn't want it to retain its exact name. I would like something that lets me know how/why it's different than the original clip of that name...