Glyn Barnes
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Odd?
Ueberschall Prog rock loops, odd or another sign of the the rehabilitation of Prog Rock? They say "We recommend combining Prog Rock with Dubstep Skillz and Electro House Inferno:" I guess it's my lack of imagination but they are not the pairings that would have sprun to my mind.
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Kreative
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I'll have to check this out and see if it evokes any mental images of topographic oceans or driving through the sound and in and out the valley.
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cecelius2
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"We recommend combining Prog Rock with Dubstep Skillz and Electro House Inferno:"
I would not expect to find this combination of prog rock and dubstep, at least not close to the edge, down by the river. Seasons must have passed me by to get up and get down with that strange combination...And you and I, still prefer the wondrous stories.
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bitflipper
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"Prog rock" and "loops" in the same sentence? I don't think so.
Looping is the antithesis of "progressive".
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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vintagevibe
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cecelius2
"We recommend combining Prog Rock with Dubstep Skillz and Electro House Inferno:"
I would not expect to find this combination of prog rock and dubstep, at least not close to the edge, down by the river. Seasons must have passed me by to get up and get down with that strange combination...And you and I, still prefer the wondrous stories.
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Bajan Blue
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Personally I think this combination is Schizoid Man......
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dubdisciple
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I think it all depends on how you define "progressive rock" i recall in my days as a buyer for a music store, the lists hada very diverse list of things under "porgressive rock". In practice tons of things get lumped under sub-genres, with purists from all sides arguing that only their defintiion of progressive rock is the right one. Many of the rock-dubstep hybrids often get lumped in that category. In any case, many a hit song that gets lumped in the progressive rock category in the music store has used loops. Debating semantics of a nebulus term is pointless.
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Kreative
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I think there can be some limited use of looping in prog rock, in as much as anything repeats itself, occasionally. But indeed, the very essence of what is progressive is that the music changes, and evolves seamlessly throughout the song [chord progressions and key changes].
I was just reading the latest KVR interview, featuring Trevor Rabin, and then subsequently listening to songs from the Union Tour. Prog rock was at in it's finest hour, then, and I'm glad I got to see some of the bands that are no longer playing.
I can't blame people for wanting to try to recreate some of the magic of progressive music. Nevertheless, I wasn't enthusiastically impressed with these particular loop offerings because they lacked some depth of sound quality- at least to my ears. Still, they might be desirable for some people.
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Jimbo21
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@Kreative: May be picking a nit here but the "Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe" album was better to me. Though I liked "Union" also. Saw them on the ABWH tour with Tony Levin on bass. Great memories!
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Kreative
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I absolutely love the ABWH, music too, Jimbo, but missed the tour, unfortunately. I can't say any one recorded work is my favorite because I like several. Parallels first awakened me to the power of Yes music, and subsequently to others of their works. I was lucky to see Steve Howe work in detail with acoustic and electric sets, along with Steve Hackett on the GTR tour. A fabulous demonstration of guitar playing. Two of my favorite guitar players among several of the prog age.
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Jimbo21
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I even liked the "Tornado" album as well as the "Going for the One" disc. I saw them a couple of years ago with Benoit David (or David Benoit, can't remember) instead oh Jon Anderson at the Ryman in Nashville were Howe played a kind of homage to the traditions of the 'Grand Ole Opry'. I loved it!
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Kreative
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I think we could easily start a whole thread about Yes music, Jimbo, and even solo work of some of the members, Like Jon's Olias of Sunhillow, a true classic. Suffice it to say that they will not be soon forgotten by many of us.
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mumpcake
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bitflipper
"Prog rock" and "loops" in the same sentence? I don't think so.
Looping is the antithesis of "progressive".
There are a number of prog rock artists whose work has included loops, Pink Floyd being the most obvious example. In fact, if you add "-ertronics" to the name of a guitarist from a certain prog rock band, you get the name of a system used to create loop based music.
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Glyn Barnes
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Yes - Floyd, Fripp used tape loops and many prog bands pioneered sampling long before it was digital.
However I agree with Bit in as much as using a "construction kit" of loops is antithesis of "progressive".
I listened to the demos, the drums and pianos just sounded wrong to me, but I guess the pack would be useful for someone looking to put together sountracks etc. with a period feel.
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dubdisciple
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everything evolves...even progressive rock. none of them used digitial loops then because it was not practical. who knows what those bands would have used if it was in their toolkit. In any case, i doubt these loops are meant for old geezers trying to imitate old geezers. It's more for young kids who can appreciate old progressive rock bands, but also have skrillex and justin bieber on their ipods too. This generation is influenced by so many cultures that they don't feel the same since of purism that older people seem to get stuck on.
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cecelius2
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Glyn Barnes
Yes - Floyd, Fripp used tape loops and many prog bands pioneered sampling long before it was digital.
However I agree with Bit in as much as using a "construction kit" of loops is antithesis of "progressive".
I listened to the demos, the drums and pianos just sounded wrong to me, but I guess the pack would be useful for someone looking to put together sountracks etc. with a period feel.
Ok. I will jump back in for a moment. My issue is the company's statement: "We recommend combining Prog Rock with Dubstep Skillz and Electro House Inferno:" So, I went back and listened to the progrock construction loop kit--the audio demo. I agree with you Glyn; it is fair set of loops that might evoke themes and some styles of some progressive bands--I can hear that, but combining that progressive construction kit with the Dubstep set of loops just seems a big stretch-- at least for me. So I wanted to be fair; so I listened to the demo of the Dubstep loops. Still, that combination seems a big stretch. Let me concede a point for the company-- I do recall vaguely that Jon Anderson released a CD in the early 90s with his son that had more of an urban vibe called Close to the Hype. So while this merger of styles ain't for me, maybe for some... I style prefer my progrock Close to the Edge, not the hype One more point. While affordable for some who are into loops as their business or avocation, the price makes it something that I would really have to need, which I don't. I will continue to save my $$ up to buy DIVA.
post edited by cecelius2 - 2013/01/09 02:11:20
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Jimbo21
I even liked the "Tornado" album as well as the "Going for the One" disc. I saw them a couple of years ago with Benoit David (or David Benoit, can't remember) instead oh Jon Anderson at the Ryman in Nashville were Howe played a kind of homage to the traditions of the 'Grand Ole Opry'. I loved it!
Think you mean "Tormato"
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Glyn Barnes
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Bristol_Jonesey
Think you mean "Tormato"
You have Rick Wakeman to thank for the title. He had a rather low opinion of the proposed cover showing Yes Tor (on Dartmoor, Devon) and threw a tomato at it, the result; the final cover and the album title. It's certainly not my favourite Yes album. Personally I thought Fly From Here was the best thing they have done since Relayer.
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Jimbo21
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Ow! I can't believe I screwed Tormato up. It's far from my favorite as well, though at the time, after I bought it in the bargain bin for cheap, I played it quite a lot.
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drewfx1
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If I buy the loops, do I have to wear a gold lamé cape before I can use them? And do they have enough loops for my obligatory 8 minute loop solo? Otherwise I can't believe they're authentic. 
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Zenwit
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bitflipper
"Prog rock" and "loops" in the same sentence? I don't think so.
Looping is the antithesis of "progressive".
Stated mathematically a hypothesis for this situation is: Prog = 1/Hip Hop Usings loops within Prog seems acceptable if you allow that folks like Bill Laswell have created new forms or variants on a Prog theme while not limiting the use of technology or Funk in the process. I think that as long as the loops are a means to an end rather than an end in themselves they can be used in a non-Heretical fashion within Prog. And some in this thread have characterized work by Fripp as being loops when, in fact, the tape stretched between the two Revox decks was not looped and was non repeating. I can't really define Prog but I know it when I hear it and I like it! 
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bitflipper
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everything evolves...even progressive rock The genre was originally called "progressive" because it was seen as an evolutionary advance, stretching the envelope of pop/rock in inventive ways. At a time when songs were required to be 3 minutes long, prog artists recorded 20-minute songs. Jazz, classical and folk elements were introduced. Unusual electronic and world instruments and effects were employed. Conventional song structures were abandoned. Live shows integrated spectacular visual effects. The essence of prog is evolution, meaning not doing the same thing over and over. Many would say today that prog is dead, and it died when people started repeating themselves...repeating themselves...repeating themselves. Let the hip-hop crowd see how closely they can mimic one another; regurgitating other people's licks ain't what prog is about. Sure, loops and arps have been used in progressive rock. But whenever a loop was used, you can be sure it was a loop no one had heard before - it certainly didn't come from some canned library!
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Kreative
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So true Bflipper.
Its almost as if "modern" music has-for the most part- fallen into a fatally predictable and canned formulaic sort of "infinite loop", if you will, of sonic wallpaper that has to conform to a very particular pattern of style without deviation. Today's music is largely cast into a prefabricated mold that few people seem to want to break away from. Progressive was, on the other hand, generally innovative and exploratory in nature, fresh and unpredictable, and the art of musicianship was valued as much as the form of the music itself.
When I think of progressive, I think of Yes, ELP and Genesis, among many others that pioneered their own style and sound.. The very ideal of progressive music was to set yourself apart as a unique, rather than a habitual follower and conformist of some sort.
I like what RW Emerson had to say about conformity, at least as it pertains to artistry:
"Society is a joint-stock company, in which the members agree, for the better securing of his bread to each shareholder, to surrender the liberty and culture of the eater. The virtue in most request is conformity."
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
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jb101
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Kreative
I think there can be some limited use of looping in prog rock, in as much as anything repeats itself, occasionally. But indeed, the very essence of what is progressive is that the music changes, and evolves seamlessly throughout the song [chord progressions and key changes].
I was just reading the latest KVR interview, featuring Trevor Rabin, and then subsequently listening to songs from the Union Tour. Prog rock was at in it's finest hour, then, and I'm glad I got to see some of the bands that are no longer playing.
I can't blame people for wanting to try to recreate some of the magic of progressive music. Nevertheless, I wasn't enthusiastically impressed with these particular loop offerings because they lacked some depth of sound quality- at least to my ears. Still, they might be desirable for some people.
Rick Wakeman renamed "Union" as "Onion", because it made him cry..
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Kreative
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@Jb101: With regard to the Union CD: Almost the entire band have openly stated their dislike of Union. Bruford has disowned the album entirely, and Wakeman was reportedly unable to recognise any of his keyboard work in the final edit and threw his copy of the album out of his limousine. He has since referred to the album as "Onion" because it makes him cry when he thinks about it.- Wikipedia
While the [union] music was not their best, the tour was a unique compilation of Yes participants [of which their were many], never before or afterward to be seen again.
post edited by Kreative - 2013/01/09 19:14:24
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Jimbo21
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Yeah, it had Trevor Rabin and Steve Howe and maybe Wakeman and Tony Kaye as well I think. I would've loved to have seen that tour.
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dubdisciple
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the stance bitflipper takes is the dsame ole strawman argument I have heard in many forms across different genres. It even uses the obligatory jab at hip-hop even though the topic is not hip-hop. By simply basing things pof the worst case stereotype of some guy looping material repeatedly right out the box it holds up, but that makes a huge assumption that is probably wrong. The average mainstream hip-hop producer would not touch these loops (although there are exceptions to everything), so let's toss old the same tired old guy bashing rap even though it is not the topic lines. The kind of guy most likely to use these kinds of loops is very unlikely to play them straight through. They are more likely to be mangled beyond belief and mashed with various things. Even in the description it is very clear they are not targeting someone trying to emulate old progressive rock bands.
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mumpcake
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I finally listened to the demo track. It sounded much more like the soundtrack to a cheesy 80's movie than what most of us would consider within the bounds of progressive rock.
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jb101
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Kreative
@Jb101:
With regard to the Union CD: Almost the entire band have openly stated their dislike of Union. Bruford has disowned the album entirely, and Wakeman was reportedly unable to recognise any of his keyboard work in the final edit and threw his copy of the album out of his limousine. He has since referred to the album as "Onion" because it makes him cry when he thinks about it.- Wikipedia
While the [union] music was not their best, the tour was a unique compilation of Yes participants [of which their were many], never before or afterward to be seen again.
I was involved with Yes at this point in their career. I thoroughly enjoyed the tour. I didn't know Rick's comment had made it to Wikipedia. Now, that is fame. Did you know Tony's keyboards weren't always plugged in?
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jb101
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Jimbo21
Yeah, it had Trevor Rabin and Steve Howe and maybe Wakeman and Tony Kaye as well I think. I would've loved to have seen that tour.
It was great fun. Nostalgia City. If a little crowded at times..
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