Dave Modisette
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Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
It's been a faithful soundcard (Frontier Dakota) but when the manufacture's latest press release is dated 2006, I would say that we are staring extinction in the face and I'm getting hiccups in multiple DAW programs (some worse than others).
I need to find another card that uses ADAT i/o, minimum 16 channels AD/DA. The kicker is that it has to LOVE, like or tolerate SONAR in a commercial setting where you can't afford "What the flip just happened" moments. Keeping drivers up to date with current operating systems is a must. Win 7 x64 is my current O/S.
I only have a PCI slot available for it. Hopefully, I would be able to pull the Dakota out and install drivers and the new card, plug the lightpipe cables back in and resume work without too much downtime.
I'm thinking RME because they've been around and seem to be moving along with the times. If you are using RME, tell me how it's working with SONAR.
EDIT: I need a midi i/o as well.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 09:17:04
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I keep looking at the MOTU 24i/o and thinking... it looks so old, but it is everything I desire.
Honestly, I'd really like a 24in, 8 out system. That would be ideal for me.
I'm using 2 896HDs and it drives me crazy that the ADAT bridge is only 20bits and that the ADAT signal comes in 7 samples behind the main unit's analog timing. It also drives me crazy that the pair doesn't work well at 96kHz while a single one works great.
The other solutions are so expensive... I don't think about them.
Good luck.
best regards,
mike
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 09:36:44
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Hi Dave,
RME would be the way to go...
If you go MOTU, you'll want the PCIe 424 card.
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bz2838
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 09:44:16
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RME Babyface works great in Sonar X2a
Purrrfect Audio: Intel i7 7700k (Kabylake), 32Gig DDR4/2133, Windows 10x64 Pro, USB RME Babyface, Sonar Platinum Current
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 09:45:13
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The RME stuff seems ideal for Dave's ADAT interest.
Everytime I look at RME I end up realizing a 24 in analog solution is priced at a much higher level than I am considering.
I wish I could enjoy the quality of RME. Maybe someday.
:-)
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Razorwit
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 09:58:24
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Hey ModBod,
You may want to think about an Orion32. It's USB instead of PCI, but it is 32 i/o (16 of which can be ADAT via 4 ports). It'd get you your ADAT i/o and still leave you with 16 channels on the Orion itself. I was skeptical about the USB but it plays nice here...I'm thinking about ditching my Lynx gear in favor of it.
Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 10:02:46
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 10:04:25
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 10:05:46
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Guy's, my interest in ADAT lies in my ownership of two Frontier Tango 24 units. Each one has 8 channels of AD/DA conversion with ADAT sync and wordclock. Theoretically, I could replace those and head a totally different direction as well. I'm just not all that keen on Firewire or USB because of all the issues posted in the past. I fear cramming all that data down the wire but I suppose the same could be said for ADAT lightpipe.
I just remembered that I will lose my Frontier Sierra 8 channel midi box as well since it's likely that it won't be compatible with any other manufacturer's card.
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Razorwit
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 10:11:19
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Hi ModBod,
Yeah, I feel you on the ADAT thing....I have some ADAT stuff round these parts that I'm trying to hold on to as well (that's part of the reason I got the Orion). I was nervous about the USB thing too...I got the unit expecting to send it back but damned if it doesn't really do 32 channels at up to 192khz in Sonar.
Anyway, I haven't used the RME stuff but I hear nothing but good things. In fact, (Mike: speaking of MADI) if I keep my Lynx gear I may just get an RME HDSPe MADI fx and a MADI interface for my Aurora 16 and run 48 channels of Lynx and Antelope conversion.
Good luck with the search ModBod,
Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
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mmorgan
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 10:15:21
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I have an RME UFX Fireface. It has worked flawlessly for me. I believe it can go either Firewire or USB (I'm using USB).
At 96 samples I get a reported round trip latency of 5.93 seconds. I have various mic preamps before it one of which feeds it ADAT (UA 4-710d). The pres in the UFX are excellent also although some find them a little too 'clean'.
Highly recommend if cost is not the issue.
Regards
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 10:37:30
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Razorwit
Hi ModBod,
Yeah, I feel you on the ADAT thing....I have some ADAT stuff round these parts that I'm trying to hold on to as well (that's part of the reason I got the Orion). I was nervous about the USB thing too...I got the unit expecting to send it back but damned if it doesn't really do 32 channels at up to 192khz in Sonar.
Anyway, I haven't used the RME stuff but I hear nothing but good things. In fact, (Mike: speaking of MADI) if I keep my Lynx gear I may just get an RME HDSPe MADI fx and a MADI interface for my Aurora 16 and run 48 channels of Lynx and Antelope conversion.
Good luck with the search ModBod,
Dean
Thanks for the response. I am slowly but surely eliminating the weak links in my gear and having excellent AD/DA conversion has a lot of value. It's cool that virtual channels are available to us now, but I have discovered that if you have a great mic (U87) going into a very good preamp or channel strip, you don't really need to add a lot of virtual anything to the track. Lynx gear is in consideration as well. (I'm even looking at the Apollo gear from UA, as well.)
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brconflict
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 10:56:36
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MADI is the thing now. Fiber. It's scalable far beyond FireWire-ish copper capabilities, and offers a better, more accurate duplex TX/RX capability with less jitter. I bought the MOTU 24/Core i/o recently. Like mike_mccue, I too found it to be what I needed for the price. With that said, I also bought the BLA clock, and replaced all the inbound OP-AMPs in the MOTU to an improvement. Comparing it to the Lynx Aurora, it holds up quite well.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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Razorwit
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 11:03:27
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Mod Bod
Thanks for the response. I am slowly but surely eliminating the weak links in my gear and having excellent AD/DA conversion has a lot of value. It's cool that virtual channels are available to us now, but I have discovered that if you have a great mic (U87) going into a very good preamp or channel strip, you don't really need to add a lot of virtual anything to the track. Lynx gear is in consideration as well. (I'm even looking at the Apollo gear from UA, as well.) Hi Mod Bod, Hm...not sure what you mean by virtual channels...just for my own edification what is a virtual channel? I can tell you that both the Antelope and the Lynx gear are solely converters. Don't mean to get off topic but you have me curious... Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 11:08:13
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mike_mccue
The RME stuff seems ideal for Dave's ADAT interest.
Everytime I look at RME I end up realizing a 24 in analog solution is priced at a much higher level than I am considering.
I wish I could enjoy the quality of RME. Maybe someday.
:-)
EDITED: Ooops, commented on the wrong post.
post edited by Mod Bod - 2013/06/12 11:27:24
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 11:11:31
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☄ Helpfulby Razorwit 2013/06/12 11:14:14
Razorwit
Mod Bod
Thanks for the response. I am slowly but surely eliminating the weak links in my gear and having excellent AD/DA conversion has a lot of value.
It's cool that virtual channels are available to us now, but I have discovered that if you have a great mic (U87) going into a very good preamp or channel strip, you don't really need to add a lot of virtual anything to the track.
Lynx gear is in consideration as well. (I'm even looking at the Apollo gear from UA, as well.)
Hi Mod Bod, Hm...not sure what you mean by virtual channels...just for my own edification what is a virtual channel? I can tell you that both the Antelope and the Lynx gear are solely converters. Don't mean to get off topic but you have me curious... Dean I meant like the Virtual Channels for the Prochannel as well as the Slate, UAD and other offerings. I've caught myself adding these plugs to each channel when I've recorded them one track at a time. I figure, why not buy the real things (hardware) and not load down your DAW?
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karhide
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 11:17:01
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I've used the RME Fireface 400 for years and now I have the UFX and I've never had any problems with them once I got my head round totalmix.
Studio: Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 32GB RAM Samsung Evo 1TB system drive Windows 10 64bit - RME FireFace UFX - Focusrite OctoPre MK II - Audient Mico Mobile: Sonar Platinum/Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 8GB RAM Samsung Evo 1TB system drive Windows 10 64bit - RME FireFace 400 Mobile2: Cakewalk by Bandlab Intel Core i7 8GB RAM 256 GB System Drive Windows 10 64 bit http://www.karhide.co.uk/https://karhide.bandcamp.com
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Razorwit
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 11:17:23
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Mod Bod
I meant like the Virtual Channels for the Prochannel as well as the Slate, UAD and other offerings. I've caught myself adding these plugs to each channel when I've recorded them one track at a time. I figure, why not buy the real things (hardware) and not load down your DAW?
Oh...that makes sense, thanks for explaining. Yeah, I'm in the same camp (hence my rationale for wanting to go MADI and getting 48 channels of conversion  ). Good luck Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 11:28:23
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Razorwit
Hey ModBod,
You may want to think about an Orion32. It's USB instead of PCI, but it is 32 i/o (16 of which can be ADAT via 4 ports). It'd get you your ADAT i/o and still leave you with 16 channels on the Orion itself. I was skeptical about the USB but it plays nice here...I'm thinking about ditching my Lynx gear in favor of it.
Dean
Good. Ditch your Lynx gear and sell it to me and you buy the Orion.
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bapu
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 11:41:17
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Mod Bod
I'm thinking RME because they've been around and seem to be moving along with the times. If you are using RME, tell me how it's working with SONAR.
Fireface UFX user here. Rock solid. I use the usb cable (no slot required).
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Razorwit
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 11:45:55
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Mod Bod
Razorwit
Hey ModBod,
You may want to think about an Orion32. It's USB instead of PCI, but it is 32 i/o (16 of which can be ADAT via 4 ports). It'd get you your ADAT i/o and still leave you with 16 channels on the Orion itself. I was skeptical about the USB but it plays nice here...I'm thinking about ditching my Lynx gear in favor of it.
Dean
Good. Ditch your Lynx gear and sell it to me and you buy the Orion.
Heh...I actually already own the Orion and I'm using both, but if you're interested in buying my LynxAES16e/LS-ADAT/Aurora16 I'd think about selling it...PM me if you're interested. Dean
Intel Core i7; 32GB RAM; Win10 Pro x64;RME HDSPe MADI FX; Orion 32 and Lynx Aurora 16; Mics and other stuff...
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WDI
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 13:01:29
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I've been happy with RME FireFace 800. I do use the adat I/O along with its own converters simultaneously to get 26 channels I/O.
I did have one major issue with static and signal loss on the quarter inch I/O years after I bought it. There was a flaw in some chemical RME used to connect the I/O module that corroded the quarter inch I/O cables. However, RME fixed the unit for free.
Sonar 7 PE Windows XP Pofessional (SP3) MSI K8N Neo4-F AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2 GB PC 3200 Ram RME Fireface 800 Edirol FA-66 CM Labs MotorMix Old stuff: ARJO
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 14:25:28
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Jim Roseberry
Hi Dave,
RME would be the way to go...
If you go MOTU, you'll want the PCIe 424 card.
Jim, I only have one PCIe slot and I've got a UAD card in it.
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wst3
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 14:29:29
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☄ Helpfulby Mod Bod 2013/06/12 16:24:08
Hi Dave,
Welcome to my world... on top of everything else, it is getting difficult to find a motherboard with native PCI slots! And I need two, since I use the Dakota/Montana - tied to three Tangos and a Fostex D-108 (if you like dinosaurs<G>!) I also use the Sierra.
There is nothing on the market that compares to the Frontier Design system. I've had no problems (but the lack of any news is unnerving, and there is no PCIe solution on the visible horizon.) One of the things I like most is that the audio and MIDI clocks are locked together - the Sierra has provided rock solid MIDI for me.
The system is so good that I have no qualms about giving up on sample rates greater than 48K. Not sure I'd hear the difference anyway.
If you want to keep the Tango converters - and I do - you are limited to RME and MOTU for the most part. I think Lynx still sells their PCI-to-ADAT card, but their PCIe cards do not directly support ADAT Lightpipe.
For now I'm considering building an AMD based system for the next DAW (the Q6600 is running out of gas!) simply to keep the Dakota stuff alive one more time.
If I were going to make a change it would be down to RME and Lynx - they just sound better, even to my old ears. Not sure exactly how I'd make it all work though!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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keith
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 15:01:40
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I happen to have a FF800 that I've been meaning to take some pictures of and post for sale for a decent price. I downsized last fall (to a FF UCX :)), not needing all the I/O anymore... Haven't used it myself w/ Sonar Xx. Drop me a PM if you want to try that route...
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wst3
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 15:58:41
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Really sad! Just went to the FDG web site, and the main page is all about their IOS apps, with a link at the bottom (in small type) to their "old audio products".
I do not want Barry and company to starve, but I am really sad to see such a great company abandon pro audio!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 16:29:39
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Well guys, this is looking very interesting to me. RME Hammerfall HDSP 9652
What is intriguing to me is the Total mix system. It's got two headphone outs and that will allow me to send one to my iso booth and another to a 4 channel headphone amp I have in my control room. Hopefully the latency will be such that I can send a "more me" feed to the individual headphone channels if someone needs it.
I'm hoping to get some more bang from the buck out of the Tangos but I guess the Sierra is going to Ebay. Maybe someone will find it useful.
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Dave Modisette
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 16:30:47
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wst3
Really sad! Just went to the FDG web site, and the main page is all about their IOS apps, with a link at the bottom (in small type) to their "old audio products".
I do not want Barry and company to starve, but I am really sad to see such a great company abandon pro audio!
Yeah. The Win 7 x64 drivers seemed to be a half hearted effort and even the user forum has shut down.
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Goddard
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/12 22:06:24
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Went down a similar road a while back. If you only have one free PCI slot (which hopefully is "native" and not "bridged") and no free PCIe slot, then for 16 channels of ADAT connectivity (2x ADAT I/O) your options are pretty much limited to: A. RME HDSP 9652 PCI (2x ADAT I/O (or 3x with daughtercard)) B. MOTU 424 PCI/PCI-X host card + MOTU 2408 (3x ADAT I/O), or C. PCI Firewire card (with T.I. chip) + M-Audio Profire Lightbridge (4x ADAT I/O) or Presonus Firestudio Lightpipe (4x ADAT I/O). The RME and MOTU options have MIDI I/O and are still supported with current drivers and software, but the M-Audio and Presonus FW interfaces may no longer be, dunno. You could always add a USB MIDI interface if necessary. If you opt for the RME 9652, make certain it's the "HDSP" version and not the earlier "DIGI" or "Hammerfall" (not "Hammerfall DSP" = "HDSP") or "Nuendo" versions. Fwiw, I went with the MOTU option for ease of expansion and its analog I/O (but with a 424 PCIe card).
post edited by Goddard - 2013/06/12 22:15:02
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Tom Riggs
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Re: Oh no, the Dakota's got to go.
2013/06/13 06:14:07
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Yow have good options with the suggestions you have already.
I am using a RME Radat card but it is pcie.
I would suggest that if you are about to spend good money on a new card perhaps its time to consider a computer upgrade to use a pcie interface. Pci is fading fast and there is a good possibility that the pci card you buy now will have to be replaced again when you have to replace your pc.
Just something to consider.
i7-3770k OC at 4.5Ghz, asus p8z77-m, 16g g.skill aries 1600 c9 ram, Noctua d-14 cooler, RME HDSPe Raydat, Motu FastLane, Nvidea GTX 980 ti 6G, windows 7 and 8.1 pro x64. Sonar Platinum and x3e currently installed My Music My YouTube
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