Helpful ReplyOld ways Vs. New ways: Equals

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chuckebaby
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2018/03/07 13:17:38 (permalink)

Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals

OLD:
Back in the day the majority of my mixing consisted of 8 fingers and 2 thumbs.
I rode 16 track faders, buses, FX sends, exc with just my 2 hands. Okay sometimes I had help. But for the most part, the old way I mixed was a one shot/one off. And more often than not were great.
 
NEW:
Now in todays times, just like most people I take advantage of every new option that's thrown at me (most of them anyway).
Which leads me in to the segue of this topic: "Automation".
Im sure many of you are perfectionists like myself, not that I consider that a gift.. Its more like attention deficit disorder.
I tend to needle to death my mixes, squeeze every last perfect decibel out of them.
 
EQUALS:
Recently I was in a rush and had to do a very quick mix. I did it much the way I used to it with my hands on the control surface faders using no automation. And guess what ?
It sounded lively and spontaneous. I quickly felt this sinking disgust: IE- I've been wasting my time feeling.
I've spent 8 hours mixing a 3 minute song but now all of a sudden I feel like I could probably get equal results in 2 hours or less. Most of that time spent on EQ and Compression.
 
 

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#1
Slugbaby
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/07 13:55:25 (permalink)
I miss that energy and "uniqueness" of a hand-made mix.  it's pretty rare these days.
 

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Jesse Screed
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/07 19:20:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jude77 2018/03/08 23:04:38
Chuck Baby, I rarely spend more than a day on a tune, and I imagine it shows, and that will probably elicit a few "no duh" from a lot of people. 
 
I'm not saying it is good or bad, it is just my frenetic nature, so I am kind of the polar opposite of your meticulous propensity.
 
I guess what I am saying is "just because you can doesn't mean you should," and I mean that for my way too.  I was the same way with plug ins too.  All these cool exciters, compressors, gates, dessers, ad infinitum, were there at my finger tips!  I need to use them right?  Pry not.  I use them less and less.
 
Follow your heart, keep finding your magic, doing it on the fly can be just as heartless as spending the time to get the shades just right.  I really like your material, the attention to detail shows, and in this crazy upside down world, there is a place for that.
 
Sometimes you got to rock out.....................
 
JQS
 
 
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jude77
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/08 23:10:27 (permalink)
Jesse Screed
Chuck Baby, I rarely spend more than a day on a tune, and I imagine it shows, and that will probably elicit a few "no duh" from a lot of people. 
 
I'm not saying it is good or bad, it is just my frenetic nature, so I am kind of the polar opposite of your meticulous propensity.
 
I guess what I am saying is "just because you can doesn't mean you should," and I mean that for my way too.  I was the same way with plug ins too.  All these cool exciters, compressors, gates, dessers, ad infinitum, were there at my finger tips!  I need to use them right?  Pry not.  I use them less and less.
 
Follow your heart, keep finding your magic, doing it on the fly can be just as heartless as spending the time to get the shades just right.  I really like your material, the attention to detail shows, and in this crazy upside down world, there is a place for that.
 
Sometimes you got to rock out.....................
 
JQS

I like your style.  Record it.  Mix it.  Move on.  Whole Beatles albums were mixed in a matter of days.  Ditto with Zep (and probably ever other band in the 60's).  And they all sold a zillion copies.  For me the bottom line: have you got a great song with a great performance?  If you do you're 99% of the way there.  Nobody ever bought a song that sucked, but had a great mix.  On the other had they did buy a great song with a mediocre mix. 

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Jesse Screed
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/08 23:32:43 (permalink)
 
jude77
 Nobody ever bought a song that sucked, but had a great mix.  On the other had they did buy a great song with a mediocre mix.

 
You got that right JUDE.

Hello Moderators, can we make this a stickY?  Or can somebody put this on paper?  Or will you testify?
 
JQS
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Slugbaby
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/09 16:09:17 (permalink)
 
jude77
 Nobody ever bought a song that sucked, but had a great mix...

Seriously?  Have you listened to the radio in the last decade???  
 

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BenMMusTech
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/09 18:52:32 (permalink)
Hmm, I must live in another universe, I only use automation on a few fxs busses and the odd volume knob. But I tend to use 100s of tracks lol - ok hyperbole. But I find it easier to mix this way, and I tend to write a lot of dynamics into my music.

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jude77
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/09 19:19:47 (permalink)
Slugbaby
 
jude77
 Nobody ever bought a song that sucked, but had a great mix...

Seriously?  Have you listened to the radio in the last decade???  
 


HAHAHAHA!!  Point well taken.

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chuckebaby
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/11 11:22:56 (permalink)
Some awesome reply's here. Some good chuckles too.
The music in the past 10 years has been killing me. I did finally hear some I liked the other day on the radio.

 
I thought I was listening to the rebirth of Led Zeppelin and I love it.

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#9
Soundwise
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/11 12:02:37 (permalink)
I think, it's not the first LZ wannabe. I recall other attempts in the past:
 

 


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Soundwise
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/11 12:08:49 (permalink)
chuckebaby
Recently I was in a rush and had to do a very quick mix. I did it much the way I used to it with my hands on the control surface faders using no automation. And guess what ?
It sounded lively and spontaneous. I quickly felt this sinking disgust: IE- I've been wasting my time feeling.
I've spent 8 hours mixing a 3 minute song but now all of a sudden I feel like I could probably get equal results in 2 hours or less. Most of that time spent on EQ and Compression.



Interesting. I've learned it the hard way. Been doing lots of plugin test and to save time I'd just do a quick-n-dirty adjustment to knobs and voila - it sounds just fine.  Thereafter I started doing my mixes that way and do like what I hear a lot more than diligently calibrated sessions in order to get a good sounding mix.

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michaelhanson
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/11 13:11:25 (permalink)
chuckebaby
Some awesome reply's here. Some good chuckles too.
The music in the past 10 years has been killing me. I did finally hear some I liked the other day on the radio.

 
I thought I was listening to the rebirth of Led Zeppelin and I love it.


Greta Van Fleet is certainly starting to get a following. I'm interested to see what these boys do next and if they continue to produce original tunes. After decades, finally a band that I am a little excited about. A couple of days ago I saw a clip of GVF playing with Elton John. Seems like some of the greats are starting to notice as well.

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jude77
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/11 19:17:07 (permalink)
chuckebaby
Some awesome reply's here. Some good chuckles too.
The music in the past 10 years has been killing me. I did finally hear some I liked the other day on the radio.

 
I thought I was listening to the rebirth of Led Zeppelin and I love it.


Dawg-gone they do sound like a modern version of Zep.  Very good stuff.  One very cool thing about the 'net is that people like this can get exposure on forums like this.

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abacab
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/12 16:46:04 (permalink)
Greta Van Fleet - From the Fires (Full Album)
 
It will be interesting to see how their sound develops.  Good stuff! 
 


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msmcleod
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/13 10:45:32 (permalink)
chuckebaby
Im sure many of you are perfectionists like myself, not that I consider that a gift.. Its more like attention deficit disorder.

 
I find this not only applies to mixing, but also to the composition process. The temptation to tweak and perfect an 8 bar intro or verse before moving on has left me with a ton of unfinished material lying around. I never had this issue using tape. Forcing myself to stick to using GM or XG sounds during the writing process can help, but sometimes this just isn't practical (i.e. the material relies on or is "inspired" by a particular synth sound - or it's largely guitar based).
 
I was once advised when doing creative writing (e.g. lyrics, stories, sales-copies etc) to switch the monitor off when typing. This completely removes the temptation to correct yourself as you type, and stops you interrupting the creative flow. It's easy enough to go back and tidy things up afterwards. This technique works REALLY well....  if only I could find a musical equivalent!
 
M.
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Slugbaby
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/13 13:09:30 (permalink)
One of the best albums I've heard in the last couple of years was recorded (live off the floor) and mixed in the same day.
It wasn't perfect, but I LOVED it!  There was a rawness and energy that usually gets edited out these days.
Sam Taylor's "What You Heard" in case you're curious.

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jackson white
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/13 18:32:14 (permalink)
Not exactly new but still happening with some of the same vibe. It also has Dave Cobb as a producer going for it.  
 
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Starise
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/13 19:08:27 (permalink)
I tend to make 75% of my mix within a day or two working several hours each time in the evening. The other 25% is unacceptable and some of that sometimes gets past me. No two mixes are ever the same. Sometimes the process is painless and other times I pull my hair out.
 
I never rode faders. Thought about a control surface when I get more room in my studio. I do ride my mouse. My mouse doesn't seem to mind.
 

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John T
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Re: Old ways Vs. New ways: Equals 2018/03/13 23:31:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chuckebaby 2018/04/14 16:33:31
I try to have a general target of a mix taking about four hours. Then I'll do maybe an hour's worth of refinements a couple of days later. I honestly think any longer, and you're not really adding anything. You're just getting too caught up in the weeds.
 
It's also mostly the only realistic way to make a living at it, and make a sensible hourly rate. But that's not the main reason. If it still sucks after a day's work, you're almost certainly better off starting from scratch than keeping tweaking. And if it doesn't suck, then it's done.

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