greekmac7
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On the bus home thinking about vocals............
Ok.
so all weekend I was working on a song, not leaving my room at all, while the rest of the town it seemed, was partying like it was 1999. I got all my tracks down and sounding pretty perfect (for what I'm aiming for at least) and all that was left was the singing.........easy right? After all, I'd just got my new Rode RT1A condenser mic and I'd been getting an alright sound off my sm58 on previous stuff already.
My plan was as follows...
1)sing song,
2)select the 'breathing' preset on the vintage channel vocal strip,
3) clone the track twice - panning one xtreme left and the other xtreme right.
4)enjoy.
Now, this may come as a huge shock to you, but my plan failed............I know - I was surprised too. To be fair its not that the vocals are sounding unpleasant, it's just that they're not as good as they should be and its letting the project down.
Of course, some blame can be given to my vocals I have nice enough voice but i'm not a pro. Saying that, in other songs done in a real studio the vocals have sounded really cool, so i'm getting the feeling that i need to change my mic setup.
the sound i'm looking for is roughly.......
matt costa'lilacs',
jack johnson 'upside down',
feist 'mushaboom'
or maria mena 'you're the only one'
guys, with all these questions I'm starting to feel like a bad son, only showing up at his parent's door when he needs money, but your answers are a really huge help and i just need you to bail me out one last time :)
Ed.
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ohhey
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 14:53:18
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greekmac7
Ok.
so all weekend I was working on a song, not leaving my room at all, while the rest of the town it seemed, was partying like it was 1999. I got all my tracks down and sounding pretty perfect (for what I'm aiming for at least) and all that was left was the singing.........easy right? After all, I'd just got my new Rode RT1A condenser mic and I'd been getting an alright sound off my sm58 on previous stuff already.
My plan was as follows...
1)sing song,
2)select the 'breathing' preset on the vintage channel vocal strip,
3) clone the track twice - panning one xtreme left and the other xtreme right.
4)enjoy.
Now, this may come as a huge shock to you, but my plan failed............I know - I was surprised too. To be fair its not that the vocals are sounding unpleasant, it's just that they're not as good as they should be and its letting the project down.
Of course, some blame can be given to my vocals I have nice enough voice but i'm not a pro. Saying that, in other songs done in a real studio the vocals have sounded really cool, so i'm getting the feeling that i need to change my mic setup.
the sound i'm looking for is roughly.......
matt costa'lilacs',
jack johnson 'upside down',
feist 'mushaboom'
or maria mena 'you're the only one'
guys, with all these questions I'm starting to feel like a bad son, only showing up at his parent's door when he needs money, but your answers are a really huge help and i just need you to bail me out one last time :)
Ed.
Try this. Find a free pitch shift plugin on the net if you don't have one. 1. Clone the vocal track twice so you have three copies. 2. Pitch shift second one down 1 cent and pan hard left 3. Pitch shift third one up 1 cent and pan hard right Start with the two shifted ones all the way down and slowly blend them in with the mix. To get a good idea of what is happening solo just the three tracks and listen. P.S. You should only need effects like reverb on track one. The other two should be dry.
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greekmac7
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 14:56:17
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do they really do that in these songs? :O
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Beagle
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 15:31:35
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if all you do is clone the tracks and pan them right and left then you do not get any stereo widening at all. without a delay of some kind on the tracks, the stereo field collapses and all you really get is quadrupled volume (doubled for each track).
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greekmac7
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 15:48:45
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i tried putting delay, of 1/32 or 1/24, but it sounded a little robotic...does that make sense?
how can i get round that?
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Beagle
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 16:00:54
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yes. in fact I personally can't stand doing the clone/shift/pan trick myself because it adds a "phasy sound" to it. because you are going to have some phase cancellation doing it that way.
personally, I think it sound 1000X better if you do a whisper track or just re-record the vocals again - even twice more times and pan THOSE tracks but reduce their volume considerably compared to the primary track.
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Beagle
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 16:02:35
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oh - just to add - Frank is correct as well - pitch shifting is a better way to create the stereo field than time shifting is. frank's method will not have the same phase cancellation problems if you don't time shift the tracks.
but I still like my way better myself.
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ohhey
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 16:09:09
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greekmac7
i tried putting delay, of 1/32 or 1/24, but it sounded a little robotic...does that make sense?
how can i get round that?
Yes, delay will cause phase problems. That's exactly how you get that phasy sound when you mean to, like with HiHat or guitar. Don't do that. Pitch shift is not as likely to do that and because the two shifted tracks are panned hard right and left and the main one is center that also prevents problems.
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greekmac7
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 16:15:03
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so........
i should forget delay because it makes me sound like a cyborg. I should pan whisper tracks hard left and right, or try taking my lead vocal up and down an octave and pan those instead....
Is v-vocal substantial to do that? I've never used before
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Beagle
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 16:19:03
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not an octave! frank was suggesting pitch shifting by ONE cent! that's very very small! there are 100 cents between each 1/2 step of the chromatic scale!
you MIGHT be able to do that in v-vocal, but from my experience v-vocal is difficult to control that resolution - I'm not sure you can only shift by 1 cent in v-vocal, but you can try.
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greekmac7
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 16:30:43
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so whisper tracks are really the only option
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ohhey
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 16:44:41
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greekmac7
so whisper tracks are really the only option
Not the only option, but worth a try. It's easy enough to do and no harm done if you don't like it.
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Beagle
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 16:46:46
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well - whisper tracks or simply re-singing the tracks is my favorite way to do it, but I don't think it's your ONLY option. there used to be a simple pitch shifter that came with the very basic sonar plugins. if it's still not available, I'm sure you can find a free one availalbe for download somewhere that will allow 1 cent changes. search KVR if you don't have one available in your versino of sonar - there's probably at least one there.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 17:25:08
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Philip
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/04 20:12:31
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I've done Frank's way (and will redo it); phasy vocs are a nightmare. But I currently prefer Hass delays (>32 msecs 100%LT and >64msecs 100%RT ... for backing vocs ... and sometimes the lead. Also, sometimes altering the pitch might be best bounced (I'm afraid)! I've experienced CPU glitches and crashes with a couple of Sonar pitch-changing VSTs. Have any of you experienced that? CJ, you stated: 5. Double tracking vocals:
"5. Double tracking vocals:
It will make the vocal part sound fuller and more powerful. This greatly depends on the singers skill on reproducing the exact vocal take that he/she performed before. During the 2nd take, you can change the singers distance from the mic. For example, if the singer was 7 inches away form the mic on its first take, then record the second take 14 inches away from the mic. You can even try a 3rd pass at it. " CJ, I've had phasy results with this and recommend this only to advanced artists who know about comb-filtering.
post edited by Philip - 2010/05/04 20:15:39
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greekmac7
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/05 02:29:07
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so i'm gonna sing it once down the middle, once down the left (maybe closer to the mic), and once down the right (maybe further away).
I'll try it tonight and report back with my news.
any advice on effects?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:On the bus home thinking about vocals............
2010/05/05 06:50:29
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You shouldn't need much by way of FX - unless for artistic purposes of course!
A LITTLE bit of reverb and a smattering of delay can help your vox shine, but don't overdo it.
Less is more.
Singing it 3 times will give you a natural chorus effect, so leave that alone as well!
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