yellowcake64
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On the verge
Hi all
I'm aware that the lifetime update offer for Sonar expires at the end of this month and I do have the money ready to upgrade from x3 Producer to Platinum but I find myself, somewhat worryingly, hesitating.
And the reason for my procrastination is the truly alarming things I'm reading about Cakewalk support. I've read countless reports of users getting absolutely nowhere when trying to contact support. It's all well and good having an excellent product but the true mettle of any company is how they respond when things go wrong. In any other walk of my life, with any other product I simply wouldn't entertain such diabolical levels of support. But I do really like Sonar.
The knowledgeable people on this forum are commendable but it just feels wrong that the entire support infrastructure for a product is effectively provided by its users on an Internet forum.
Anyway that's the reason for my hesitation guys. Can't help it. I just wish I knew that things would improve but I've seriously got my doubts.
Dave
Yellowcake Sonar Platinum; Core i7 4790K Quad core 16GB DDR 3 RAM; Windows 10 (64-bit); Tascam US-4x4 interface; Roland Juno D synth; KRK Rokit 6 monitors; V-Amp2; V-Amp Bass.
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chuckebaby
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 18:06:13
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I understand where your coming from. I do believe its been mentioned they are hiring new Support people as we speak, however that doesn't do much for the folks who are on the fence about purchasing. I know it is not much of a condolence but this forum has some of the best support any where. that's not a replacement for real tech support. but you know what I mean. this is a great company, we have no reason to believe this is being done intentionally. the new lifetime upgrade just left them swamped with new calls, well that's what im guessing anyway.
post edited by chuckebaby - 2016/08/15 18:28:08
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yellowcake64
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 18:23:46
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"I know it is not much of a condolence but this forum has some of the best support any where."
Agreed. But that's actually part of the problem. If Sonar didn't have this forum it probably wouldn't have a business!
I really don't know which way I'm going to go here. If Sonar's support was only half as good as its products I'd be reaching for the credit card now!
Dave
Yellowcake Sonar Platinum; Core i7 4790K Quad core 16GB DDR 3 RAM; Windows 10 (64-bit); Tascam US-4x4 interface; Roland Juno D synth; KRK Rokit 6 monitors; V-Amp2; V-Amp Bass.
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John
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 18:37:20
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To me its a non issue. I have used support twice in the many years I have been a CW user. I can tell you this. CW is doing the very best to get the support staff increased and trained. They are acutely aware there problems getting through to support and they are fixing the problem. Be patient and upgrade. This issue is bump in the road when you measure it against a lifetime. I do know that CW has always provided great support in the past and I expect the same in the future
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pinguinotuerto
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 19:39:28
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I too am bothered by this support issue, but if you look at the price to upgrade ($168.99) through Audiodeluxe.com. It's worth it just in AD2 Ad packs and additional plugins that you can access in X3e- if Platinum gives you any issues. I did it and don't regret it, but still, there's no excuse for what's going on with support.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 19:42:42
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Understandable point brought up by the OP ... Yet , isn't that only just a temporary customer support situation ? Yes ? No ? Cakewalk is currently in the process of hiring people and training them .... In all honesty here where I'm sitting , I can only offer you one little incentive or idea based on my situation ... After running X3 PE up until December of 2015 , I upgraded to SPlat at that time. I have never been happier with SONAR in the 11 years I have been using SONAR ... My main Windows DAW has both X3 PE and Splat on it . I actually get mad when I accidentally open up X3 instead of SPlat ... The difference in performance , optimization for Win 10 , added functionality , much better stability , new features and over all user satisfaction is astonishing . IMHO , X3 PE was just a Stepping Stone that lead to my greater Overall Happiness in SONAR SPlat  full disclosure ,I would not hesitate for moment to upgrade to Lifetime if I didn't have to come up w almost 2 grand for other responsibility's I'm not able to defer ....The Wolf is not at my door , but saying I'm sorry is not gonna feed my Bulldog  Good luck O P in what ever you decide too do , Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/08/15 20:25:06
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Anderton
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 20:13:00
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I think the answer depends on a couple of things. - Whether you think support will never return, or that this is a temporary (although admittedly serious) problem. My take is that support will never be as good as everyone wants it to be all the time, because no company attains that goal. But with new people coming on board, they'll work through the backlog and get back to normal.
- Whether you think you're really going to need a lot of support. Many people here have found all the support they needed about the program itself in the FAQs, the forum, and with internet searches. That doesn't help with authorization or installation problems, but those tend to be "fix once / done" issues.
Another consideration is that the money you save with lifetime updates means that if you encounter computer system issues and such that don't relate specifically to SONAR or to authorization issues, you'll have enough to do some sessions with obedia.com or some local PC guru.
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chuckebaby
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 20:42:17
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John
To me its a non issue. I have used support twice in the many years I have been a CW user.
+1 ive called them once. and it was unnecessary. it was something I could have figured out on my own. yellowcake64
Agreed. But that's actually part of the problem. If Sonar didn't have this forum it probably wouldn't have a business!
If Sonar's support was only half as good as its products I'd be reaching for the credit card now!
if sonar...but that..... I would be.... this is all a hypothetical game. similar to the "what if" game. truth is... the lifetime updates deadline is the last day of August. you can debate all you want but if you don't take advantage of the deal by then, well you "Might" be blaming yourself for not getting it while it was there for the taking. I've told you I agree with your concerns about support, but it Didn't stop me from purchasing the lifetime update. I took full advantage of that deal. and im very pleased I did. I would have purchased the lifetime update if they told me Support wasn't included.
post edited by chuckebaby - 2016/08/15 21:15:13
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Anderton
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 21:08:59
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yellowcake64
"I know it is not much of a condolence but this forum has some of the best support any where."
Agreed. But that's actually part of the problem. If Sonar didn't have this forum it probably wouldn't have a business! However...if Cakewalk wasn't the kind of business it was, it probably wouldn't have this forum. Few manufacturer forums are as open, allow criticism that is so ignorant it really doesn't deserve any attention, and have the CTO himself as well as many other people from the company participate. This forum didn't become great by accident. It has been a joint effort by the community and Cakewalk. As a result it has attracted some really stellar people who come here to help. I won't name them all because I know I'll forget some, but I can't help but wonder if a few of them have had SONAR's documentation implanted into their brains.
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ampfixer
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 21:24:50
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Support is only a concern to me if/when I'm dead in the water. Usually that's a registration issue and it's happened a couple times in 4 years and the result of a computer file issue.
Most of my tech answers come from right here. Once there's a completed purchase and a successful installation, it's mostly a learning curve. If you try and be clear and composed with a question, the forum is a huge knowledge base full of friendly people.
I love good customer service and have no doubt that Cakewalk will get it sorted in time. Challenges presented by growth are the best kind. (please read the disclaimer in my sig)
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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tenfoot
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 21:32:48
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I understand your concerns Dave. I have never needed support outside of this forum in the past but have had an issue wth the paylist in the past 3 updates that renders them unusable for me, so I too was hesitant. After reading your post and the responses here I realised I needed to make my decision on the quality of Sonar as a whole and Cakewalk's behaviour over the 25 years that I have used their DAW. Compared to this, the current support issues really are just a bump in the road, and lifetime updates at such a modest price is a no brainer. I just signed up - I reckon you should too:)
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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Anderton
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 21:33:56
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ampfixer
Challenges presented by growth are the best kind. (please read the disclaimer in my sig) Well, it's usually better than the alternative  But growth almost killed Alesis. I was consulting to them when they did ADAT, and the president of the company was estimating 5,000 units a year; the operation was set up with that in mind. I was aghast, I said they'd sell 5,000 a month. He thought I was crazy, but the sales were between 4K and 5K a month, and they were totally unprepared to ramp up to that level of demand (e.g., create new supply chains, warehouse space, beef up QC, etc.). OTOH it was great for music stores, who sold ADATs for 20% over list price when it first came out.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 21:40:21
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yellowcake64
Hi all
I'm aware that the lifetime update offer for Sonar expires at the end of this month and I do have the money ready to upgrade from x3 Producer to Platinum but I find myself, somewhat worryingly, hesitating.
And the reason for my procrastination is the truly alarming things I'm reading about Cakewalk support. I've read countless reports of users getting absolutely nowhere when trying to contact support. It's all well and good having an excellent product but the true mettle of any company is how they respond when things go wrong. In any other walk of my life, with any other product I simply wouldn't entertain such diabolical levels of support. But I do really like Sonar.
The knowledgeable people on this forum are commendable but it just feels wrong that the entire support infrastructure for a product is effectively provided by its users on an Internet forum.
Anyway that's the reason for my hesitation guys. Can't help it. I just wish I knew that things would improve but I've seriously got my doubts.
Dave
How many DAWs regress? Hardly any since the market is quite competitive. There is plenty of software that happens to survive with far worse tech support than Cakewalk. I doubt they will slack in this dept. say like 5 years from with your lifetime updates.
Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4, NVidia 750ti, AP2496 Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro, 16GB Ram, AMD FX 6300, Gigabyte GA 970 -UD3 P, nVidia 9800GT, Guitar Port, Terratec EWX 2496
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daryl1968
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 21:42:39
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Using Cakewalk products for 14 years and never used support.
Any issues have been solved by coming here.
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abacab
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/15 22:52:01
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chuckebaby
I would have purchased the lifetime update if they told me Support wasn't included.
+1 True story... I have only really needed them about twice in over 15 years. I called them about 4 years ago to switch my email address to a new one. It was handled promptly over the phone. I emailed account support on 6/10 of this year because my Z3TA+ 2 was not listed in my account>my products. I had purchased it online through the old legacy Cakewalk store, and it apparently did not make the trip over to the new store. I wanted to upgrade Z3TA+ 2 (2.1) to the latest version (2.2) which was apparently only available through Command Center. I just needed to have the product registered correctly to make this happen. On 6/16 I received confirmation that my Z3TA+ 2 was now in my Cakewalk account. With apologies for the delay. Keep in mind that this support request was handled during the initial weeks following the 6/1 announcement of the lifetime updates for Sonar. Just my 2 cents :-)
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 04:12:45
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The only time I needed support was for a registration issue at the time Platinum was released.
You will get 99% of all of your answers on this forum, and although you say "If Sonar didn't have this forum it probably wouldn't have a business", the fact is they DO have this forum and it's not going away!!
Bite the bullet man, what's the alternative? Pay yearly, every year?
It's your money..........
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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MacFurse
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 05:46:25
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I don't think there is any reasonable excuse that can be made for the situation they have got themselves in with customer support. But I'm sure they don't need this pointed out now when hindsight is such a wonderful thing!! All IMO of course.
But the bulk of your concerns comes down to your experience really. If you already know your way around, have most of your products already registered and working, then you need have no concern. I'm with almost everyone here, only calling support I think twice in the last 20 years or so, it was licence/registration issues, not support for the actual product. Everything I've needed to be taught, or shown the way, has been here, rightly or wrongly, or in the cake university, or just plain old google and Youtube.
I think your putting yourself through some misery for no reason. Just get it and enjoy it. I believe, like some others here, that this is the ONLY DAW that has progressed in the last several years.
Whatever you decide, just relax with your decision. Life's too short to worry about money, or support !!!
Platinum. i7 4771 3.5ghz. ECU H87 mobo with 3 monitor support. 16gb Ripjaws 1600mhz. Focusrite 18i20. 2 x 250gb Samsung EVO SSD's OP/Programs. 2x1TB Seagate Baracuda sata3 data drives. 200gb sata2 bootable drive for online and downloading only. Seagate 2tb USB 3.0 backup drive. 2x27in monitors. Rode K2 valve mic. Sontronics STC-1 pair. Studio Projects B1 condenser. SM58B. SM57B. Presonus Eureka Preamp.
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yellowcake64
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 06:56:17
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Some great points chaps but I'm definitely something of a novice compared to you guys. To be honest I'm rediscovering home recording after a bit of a break. Moved house recently, divorce blah, blah.
I'm the sort of bloke who will probably need quite a lot of support. Even the registration process seems a bit problematic. Just nervous that I won't get the help I'll inevitably need.
All that said. I probably will upgrade. If I move away it's another learning curve (not that I'm far up the Sonar slope).
Thanks for your responses.
Dave
Yellowcake Sonar Platinum; Core i7 4790K Quad core 16GB DDR 3 RAM; Windows 10 (64-bit); Tascam US-4x4 interface; Roland Juno D synth; KRK Rokit 6 monitors; V-Amp2; V-Amp Bass.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 07:38:35
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Dave, you have a nice computer at your disposal and IMO Platinum will run flawlessly on it.
You can always revert to X3e in the unlikely event that Splat DOES throw you a curve ball, so don't be tempted to uninstall X3. Leave it in place permanently.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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bitman
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 08:44:28
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Aw C'mon, Jump! Go ahead and, Jump!
You even get an HD infinity badge with every purchase! *
* must be able to find the thread where BobF offered it up and merge it yourself in a paint program.
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Anderton
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 09:32:14
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Bear in mind that support is about technical support. Part of the reason for the backlog is people using support for feature requests and asking "how to" question about using the program. Feature requests should not go to support because that's not what they do, and the forum is actually the correct place to ask "how to" questions about getting the most out of SONAR.
Support does get questions from people who want to know things like how to get a good mix or how to mic a guitar amp, but those kind of questions are well beyond the scope of support's intended purpose.
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bitman
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 10:40:07
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Anderton
Support does get questions from people who want to know things like how to get a good mix or how to mic a guitar amp, but those kind of questions are well beyond the scope of support's intended purpose.
No wonder there is no support! I'd make a run for it too.
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JonD
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 11:06:21
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kennywtelejazz
Understandable point brought up by the OP ... Yet , isn't that only just a temporary customer support situation ?
...
Cakewalk is currently in the process of hiring people and training them ....
Exactly. I understand being a noob, and wanting the "safety net" of tech support available... but the vast majority of issues a beginner would encounter can easily be handled by the forum (and in a much timelier fashion). In fact, the best thing you can do for yourself is watch the Sonar - Getting Started Video series and also the many videos on Sonar available on YouTube. If you don't mind paying for the education, there's an excellent Sonar video series at Groove3.com. These can be purchased individually (downloads) or via subscription (streaming).
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microapp
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 11:38:55
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☄ Helpfulby robert_e_bone 2016/08/16 14:27:35
Cakewalk has stated that the tech-support issue is a temporary thing.
I have never used support in 8 years. I consider this forum as tech-support
Platinum is worth the upgrade cost even without the lifetime updates.
With lifetime updates, it becomes a no-brainer.
If the money is no problem, by all means do it.
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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Brian Walton
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 11:55:41
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Anderton
Support does get questions from people who want to know things like how to get a good mix or how to mic a guitar amp, but those kind of questions are well beyond the scope of support's intended purpose.
I've never had to contact support. But I hope they have a "form" response to these kinds of requests. Also, from what I read about frustrated users here that contact support for non-show stopping bugs, it makes me wonder what a miserable job that must be. 
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microapp
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 12:07:44
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Support for a product as complex as Sonar which also has many system and I/O dependencies is a daunting task. You cannot get just anyone off the street to read from a script and expect them to be useful. Even with experienced support people, it is going to take some time to get them up to speed.
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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WallyG
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 12:20:37
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microapp
Support for a product as complex as Sonar which also has many system and I/O dependencies is a daunting task. You cannot get just anyone off the street to read from a script and expect them to be useful. Even with experienced support people, it is going to take some time to get them up to speed.
I think an interim solution until support can get up to speed is to put in a Hot Line (with a red phone) that connects Tech Support directly to Scook. He can answer any technical question on Sonar! Walt
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slartabartfast
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 12:36:45
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If free technical support for individual users were the make or break issue in deciding to purchase software, no one would be running Microsoft Windows. Without putting down a substantial payment, you will not get anything from them live except some help with installation/activation and update issues. The last time I found a major bug issue in Windows, I was told I would have to pay for per incident support, but that the payment would be refunded if they confirmed that it was in fact a bug at some later point in time. What Microsoft has done well, and Cakewalk has done less well, is to create an online database of support solutions (Knowledgebase) that sophisticated customers can access and understand, and more recently downloadable software that fixes common problems automatically. Cakewalk could probably save thousands of technical support hours by investing in user friendly and much more complete online help systems. Unsophisticated users are not so fortunate in any case. Someone incapable of or unwilling to understand the documentation is going to need a lot more hand holding than any company is going to be able to afford to provide at the kind of prices we are willing to pay. Engineering the kind of FixIt apps that Microsoft provides is probably more than Cakewalk resources will permit, but it would be a very useful feature. In any event, it should be possible to prioritize technical support so that a new user who is having trouble installing or registering his software gets his answer first, and someone who is having trouble installing a Ukrainian trojan horse plugin, or who wants to know what the funny button next to the dojigger on the screen with all the buttons on it does has a longer wait. btw Microsoft stopped giving users even a basic manual ages ago. The Sonar Reference Manual, albeit no longer apparently being updated, is one of the best software manuals I have ever seen.
post edited by slartabartfast - 2016/08/16 13:00:57
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Mesh
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 12:50:01
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I've been using Sonar since 2004 (actually before that with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9) and have got all my support from these forums.....never really needed actual tech support that the forum folks couldn't resolve. I'm also going for the lifetime upgrade (soon) as Cakewalk has proved to me they're here to stay for the long haul. Speaking of lifetime upgrades, the reason the Bakers are taking their time in hiring support is because the applicants all need to be young enough to outlive us (and need their parents consent to work).
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karhide
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Re: On the verge
2016/08/16 16:58:52
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I have only used support once and that was only when an upgrade was incorrectly shipped from the US to the UK and I had to pay the import duty on the marked price of the full software. I didn't get the money back but I was given the next upgrade free so I was happy.
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