AnsweredOptimizing an SSD

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Mesh
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2018/06/04 14:16:24 (permalink)

Optimizing an SSD

Sorry for the multiple posts on this, but I still have some unanswered questions.
 
I'm still planning on using an NVMe PCIe SSD drive, but not as the boot drive. The (new) plan is to use:
 
1) SATA SSD as the boot drive
2) NVMe drive for software programs (migrating them from my current SATA SSD)
3) Two HDD's (one for Sonar projects and other for samples)
 
Is there any benefit in using a software like PrimoCache with my current setup?
Any downsides to using PrimoCache?
(PC specs are still the same in my sig)
 
   

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abacab
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/04 16:24:47 (permalink)
I've never used anything like that.  You shouldn't have any issues with the native speed you will get with SSD. 
 
If your HDD are fast spinners on SATA 3, 600MB/s ports, that should be more than sufficient for audio tracking or loading samples.
 
In any case, I would test performance with your new drives as is first, before installing any additional layers of tech.

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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/04 17:45:11 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby Mesh 2018/06/05 14:41:00
Just some FWIW comments:
 
I've never seen a caching app that actually benefits DAW performance.
Most cause performance issues...
 
Why put programs on a dedicated drive?
In the past, I've seen this cause problem with some applications (component files aren't where they're expected).
Unless you're talking something like the Adobe Cache (using After Effects), there's no performance benefit to putting applications on a dedicated drive.  
 
NVMe is (IMO) overkill for running applications.
Standard SATA SSD is plenty fast for that purpose.
 
I'd save NVMe for disk-streaming sample libraries (or those sample libraries that load slow).
ie: HALion 6 is a great virtual instrument... but the samples tend to load slow. 
Put the library on NVMe SSD... and load times are greatly reduced. 
Disk-streaming polyphony is increased by a factor of ~6x  
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/04 17:48:04 (permalink)
If your "Samples" HD is fast, it'll sustain about 190MB/Sec.
NVMe SSD will sustain ~3200MB/Sec.
Using NVMe for your "Samples" drive; you'd achieve the better part of 17x the disk-streaming polyphony... and samples would load much faster.
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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Mesh
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/04 18:35:38 (permalink)
Thanks guys, I knew you'd talk some sense into me. I think I got a little too caught up in reading/researching this NVMe drive and wanted to get the best out of it.....this is a perfect example of how knowing a little info can be dangerous.
 
Jim, I was actually looking at another drive for programs as my current SSD is getting filled up (got a bit worried when I saw the C: Drive in red....11 GB remaining) and wasn't quite sure what's the best way to go about this.
 
So, how would I go about using my current boot drive (250GB SSD that's getting filled up) with a new 1TB SATA SSD work out? I like to do the disk streaming from the larger drive, but what about my boot drive that's getting filled up?    

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gswitz
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/04 18:41:25 (permalink)
I was helped by learning about windows junctions

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/05 09:47:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2018/06/05 14:41:06
Mesh
Jim, I was actually looking at another drive for programs as my current SSD is getting filled up (got a bit worried when I saw the C: Drive in red....11 GB remaining) and wasn't quite sure what's the best way to go about this.
 
So, how would I go about using my current boot drive (250GB SSD that's getting filled up) with a new 1TB SATA SSD work out? I like to do the disk streaming from the larger drive, but what about my boot drive that's getting filled up?  



If you keep the boot drive clean/lean, 250GB is actually a fair bit of space.
  • If you've got any Sample Libraries on the boot drive, get those moved to a dedicated "Samples" drive.
  • Run "Disk Cleanup".  If you've applied some recent Win10 updates, they leave large remnants behind.
If you still absolutely need more drive space on the boot drive, bump up to a 500GB SSD.
Create a fully up-to-date backup image file (of the current boot drive)... and load that onto the new 500GB SSD.
If you need more than 500GB SSD for boot drive, you have a massive amount of applications/plugins installed. 
 
NVMe SSDs are amazing (and expensive).
Use them strategically... 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
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mettelus
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/05 11:00:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2018/06/05 13:23:25
Mesh
Jim, I was actually looking at another drive for programs as my current SSD is getting filled up (got a bit worried when I saw the C: Drive in red....11 GB remaining) and wasn't quite sure what's the best way to go about this.
 



Download TreeSize Free and run it as administrator so you can see the whole drive (there is a portable version available too). Expanding the tree, you will easily find apps, data files, and pure garbage eating your drive. Be aware that your Celemony Separations folder can also get MASSIVE in short order.
 
For things "not garbage" (delete the garbage unless you collect it for a reason), you can move those to another drive (removing the original folder), then create junctions to map them back. Most "biggies" are in your Program Files, Documents, or ProgramData folders, and most have audio or video data files in them.
 
For me, my D drive is an SSD, and all junctions are made to the top level directory so I can easily find them. I got anal when building this new machine, so my C drive is roughly 100GB... so examples (that might apply to you) of junctions (these are the text entries in the batch files ... I use only command per batch and edit/resave them to a new name when I junction something else) are:
 
mklink /j "C:\Cakewalk Content" "D:\Cakewalk Content"
mklink /j "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Rapture\Multisamples" "D:\Cakewalk Content\Rapture\Multisamples"
mklink /j "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Dimension Pro\Multisamples" "D:\Cakewalk Content\Dimension Pro\Multisamples"
mklink /j "C:\Users\md_ma\Documents\Celemony" "D:\Celemony"
mklink /j "C:\Users\md_ma\Documents\iZotope" "D:\iZotope"
mklink /j "C:\ProgramData\XLN Audio" "D:\XLN Audio"
 
There are more, but you get the idea.
 
Caveat... if you use a batch file to xcopy data files regularly (advised), you will want to exlude those junctions so you do not copy them as well.
 
My xcopy batch file looks like (run daily and takes less than 10 seconds):
 
xcopy "C:\Users\md_ma" "d:\Backup\michael" /d /c /s /e /exclude:C:\list.txt
pause

xcopy "C:\ProgramData" "d:\Backup\ProgramData" /d /c /s /e /exclude:C:\list2.txt
pause
 
...and the "list.txt" file looks like this [edited to reflect the above junctions]:
C:\Users\md_ma\Documents\Celemony\
C:\Users\md_ma\Documents\FXpansion\
C:\Users\md_ma\Documents\iZotope\


"list2.txt" has this [also edited to reflect the above]:
C:\ProgramData\XLN Audio
 
another caveat is you need to save those list files elsewhere, then copy them to the main C directory, if you do what I did (they cannot be edited there, but in all honestly they can reside anywhere as long as they are properly mapped in the xcopy batch file).
 
Anyway, you get the idea... a lot of the things that reside on the C: drive (by default and you cannot change) can be dealt with in this fashion. The other upside is my C drive disk image can be created/restored in roughly 5 minutes.
 
HTH
 
 
 

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Mesh
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/05 14:40:15 (permalink)
Very good suggestions guys, I appreciate it and will follow through with the advice.
Thanks Michael for all the details....very helpful indeed.
 
Cheers!!
Mesh

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abacab
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/05 18:27:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2018/06/18 12:46:06
My basic storage scheme is:
 
1. A SATA SSD 250GB as my main system drive C: with Windows, programs, program data, users, plugins, and current projects located there. I try to keep around 100GB free space here, as that helps keep my system image file size down to a manageable level. This allows for fast, < 30 minute, daily images to an external USB3 drive.
 
2. My D: drive is a fast SATA 1TB spinner.  I put all my application and plugin content, loops, and samples over there, using installer prefs, or directory junctions as needed.  Eventually plan on moving this drive to SSD, as samples tend to load a bit slowly from HDD.  I image this drive once a week just to be safe, but the content is fairly static and doesn't change frequently.
 
A little application I use to check folder sizes on a drive is WinDirStat. 
https://windirstat.net/
It is like Windows Explorer but sorts by file/subtree size, so you can quickly see if a folder is getting out of hand.  This can help prioritize by space consumed, what to move to a secondary or archive drive.  You may discover that you have a lot on your system that can easily be stored offline, if you rarely touch it.

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mettelus
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/15 12:35:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2018/06/18 12:43:50
Just a quick follow up on the  "garbage" I mentioned above. Two folders I clean fairly regularly are:
 
C:\Users\[main user name]\AppData\Local\Temp  and
C:\Windows\Temp
 
Both of these tend to house files which get used in one session and never get cleaned accept by the user, so they can get fairly big over time.
 
Having just done my first Win10 update (from 1709 -> 1803), Windows leaves its old version on the drive (30+ GB). I just imaged that drive with Macrium Reflect, and although it took twice as long, the image is the same size, so apparently Reflect doesn't copy that with default settings. To me this is not paramount, since I am on 1803 without issues, but to actually save those would require tweaking Reflect to image them.
 
To recover that space, you need to run "Disk Cleanup" on C: and select "Clean up system files" at the bottom. This exposed 1.54GB of "Windows Update Cleanup" and 29.7GB of "Previous Windows Installation(s)". Jim mentioned this above, but I didn't realize the size of these until I got to see it for myself (that is a hefty percentage for a small SSD!).

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Mesh
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/18 12:55:41 (permalink)
Good info guys, appreciate all the details. I also noticed that 30GB Windows/Sys files, but just left them alone. Will take a look at cleaning up the older version to free up some more space.
 
I forgot that I had a folder on my desktop I use for collaborations containing all WAV files which had about 30GB....deleted all of that and moved a few libraries (10GB) to my samples drive which cleaned up my C: drive. So all in all, my C: drive is looking much, much better, but will look into that 30GB Windows System files.
 
Cheers!!
Mesh  

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abacab
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/18 16:55:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2018/06/18 17:09:13
The 30GB "Windows.old" from your last Windows upgrade is placed there in case you want to "roll back" to the old version.  If you are satisfied with the upgrade, you can use disk cleanup to remove it.
 
Windows should automatically remove it at some point.
 
https://www.howtogeek.com...-how-do-you-delete-it/

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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/27 16:59:17 (permalink)
To remove the "Windows.old" you just need to run Disk Cleanup (including System Files).
You should have a backup of the OS (if not, I'd make one ASAP).

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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www.studiocat.com
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Mesh
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/28 12:39:07 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
To remove the "Windows.old" you just need to run Disk Cleanup (including System Files).
You should have a backup of the OS (if not, I'd make one ASAP).


Done and done!! :))

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GaryMedia
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Re: Optimizing an SSD 2018/06/28 15:08:46 (permalink)
Wow, I just came across this thread.  Great stuff!
 
There must have been something in the air about a month ago with PrimoCache.  I've been experimenting with it as an assist to my video editing ambitions. As observed earlier in the thread, I also haven't found much in audio (beyond sample loading) that makes life better using these new hyper-fast devices or caching schemes. 
 
I have a 3-part article about the PrimoCache journey on my website.  [www.tedlandstudio.com/articles]. It's called Homemade Hybrid Disk Drives.
 
Since I've written it, there have been more changes to the disk farm because of some nasty surprises.  (None of the surprises were related to PrimoCache; just that HGST 3TB drives are happy with my 4-bay USB towers and HGST 2TB drives are not happy. Go figure.)
 
Anyway, I'm now going to work/play with WinDirStat and TreeSize.  Thanks to all!
 
 

CbB in Win7 and Win10 | Mac Pro 12-core 3.33GHz/48GB | TCL 55" 4K UHD | 500GB SSD | 480GB SSD | 6x 3TB | 1.5TB SSD RAID-0 array | Midas M32 | 2x Audient ASP800 |  UAD-2 Duo PCIe | Adam A7X.
http://www.tedlandstudio.com/articles
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