...wicked
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Options for "missing" plugins?
I've been barking up and around this tree for a while now. Through various DAW rebuilds, an OS upgrade, and general housekeeping, I sometimes run into problems with different versions of synths and plugs not getting recognized. I've wished for a long time for better asset tools, especially the ability to skim preset info out of a project file so you can more easily "swap" the offending plug. When on load if SONAR finds a missing synth/plug and can't load it, it would be great to be able to re-assign it at that point. So, for example, my Pro-52 is all bunged up from an older project and it barfs on load, I could simple point it to Pro-53, where patch info should load just fine. Great, right? :-)
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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sven450
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/07 20:40:57
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Yes please! This would be amazing, although from a programming point of view, I have no idea how difficult it would be to integrate into a patch or something. I'm guessing the answer is that it would be really freaking difficult, but hey, lets hope I'm wrong.
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SF_Green
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/07 21:19:49
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AMD FX-8370, Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3, Win7x64 SP1, 16Gb CorsairDDR3-1600, GeForce GTX 950 (390.65), SSD 525Gb (OS), SATA 3 & 1.5Tb, MOTU microlite, RME FireFace 800 (D 3.124, fw 2.77), UAD-2Q, Adam A7X, A-800 PRO, CC121 Cubase Pro 10.0.5, SonarPt- 2017.10 (x64), Reason10.2, Live 10.0.5 Suite, Wavelab Elements 9.5.40, Komplete10Ult, POD Farm2.5, Omnisphere2.5, BFD3, Alesis QS7.1, Arturia BeatStep Pro, POD HD500, Alesis ControlPad, ARP Omni, many things with strings. GrSltz My Studio
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jude77
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/07 22:24:47
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bitman
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/07 23:33:53
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It should do this: Sonar can't find this plug -> user can browse for it -> Sonar registers it on the fly -> user sees plugin as expected.
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mudgel
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/08 02:28:38
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Obviously somewhere in Sonars code it knows what plugin and version of it are in the project, because it can tell you it's missing. It would seem that if Sonar points to one plugin it shouldn't be too hard to change that reference to another. Clearly I'm no programmer and I've no doubt over simplified something really complex. But have I.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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KPerry
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/08 04:16:00
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Good idea, but there's no guarantee that the patch data saved in the cwp file for the old version matches that of the new, so SONAR could crash when trying to get the new version to load it (and people would blame SONAR :-)) or the sound/effect may be totally out of whack and unhelpful.
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mudgel
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/08 04:26:18
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It currently opens a default plugin window with details of what it can't find, if it opened up your plugin list allowing you to select the plugins and open it giving you the chance to select a preset.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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SilkTone
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/08 11:25:52
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A while ago I suggested the idea of optionally embedding the plugins into the project, for instance by taking all the DLLs and compressing them into a single file that goes with the Sonar project. That way if you open the project 10 years later, you can recover the missing plugins from the project's plugin backup. However that creates all sorts of other issues, like the fact that some plugins are more than just a single DLL (they have full installers, extra files etc), licensing issues etc. If you are talking about a synth like Pro-52, Sonar does have an option to swap it out with another synth, however that feature seems to be broken. If the synth you are trying to replace is no longer available, then the one you are replacing it with will be disabled in some mysterious way. I have not figured out how to enable the one you replaced it with. I gave up after a while and just copied the old synth's MIDI clips and FX to another track. I don't think it would be possible to use preset data between different plugins, as they all store the data in their own format. When you save a project, Sonar asks each plugin to give it its current blob of data that will be used to restore it to the same state when you open the project next time. But this data is just a blob of meaningless data to Sonar, so unless there is some standard format developed, this will be not be portable. Probably the best solution right now would be if you saved the Pro-52 preset and Pro-53 has the ability to import older presets. BTW Sonar can swap out VST2 versions with VST3 versions of the same plugins, so there is some of that going on at least.
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
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SF_Green
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/08 11:32:15
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I realize doing a 1 to 1 replacement will probably never work. But what could be possible that would be very helpful would be to at least recover the name of a patch or preset that was loaded in the plugin. That way if it's an older project I'm coming back to I would at least have some idea of what I was doing in that track and could make setting a replacement up much faster.
post edited by SF_Green - 2015/04/08 18:53:22
AMD FX-8370, Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3, Win7x64 SP1, 16Gb CorsairDDR3-1600, GeForce GTX 950 (390.65), SSD 525Gb (OS), SATA 3 & 1.5Tb, MOTU microlite, RME FireFace 800 (D 3.124, fw 2.77), UAD-2Q, Adam A7X, A-800 PRO, CC121 Cubase Pro 10.0.5, SonarPt- 2017.10 (x64), Reason10.2, Live 10.0.5 Suite, Wavelab Elements 9.5.40, Komplete10Ult, POD Farm2.5, Omnisphere2.5, BFD3, Alesis QS7.1, Arturia BeatStep Pro, POD HD500, Alesis ControlPad, ARP Omni, many things with strings. GrSltz My Studio
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...wicked
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/08 15:36:29
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Well, could it just do a check to see if the patch parameters "take"? If it doesn't work because the versions are so different they don't read then that's just the way it is. But yes, as suggested above, even just a preset name or patch # would still be very helpful. Most features tend to be present moving forward, but anyone who has been doing this for any length of time knows what a headache backwards compatibility is. Now don't get me wrong, Cake has done a great job with that in regards to the project files, stellar actually. But it's all these gosh-dang VSTs that are always the hiccup.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/08 16:43:39
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SF_Green I realize doing a 1 to 1 replacement will probably never work. But what could be possible that would be very helpful would be to at least recover the name of a patch or preset that was loaded in the plugin. That way if it's an older project I'm coming back to I would at least have some idea of what I was doing in that track and could set setting else up much faster.
I share the frustration of having older projects with plugins that may not load or even exist on my PC anymore. What I learned to do since those days was to: 1. Create a version of projects with synths bounced, to preserve sound if I have to rebuild later and don't have the synths for some reason. 2. I now tend to save any sounds I have either built from scratch or created using some preset as a base and tweaked for a particular project - so I now save those presets in 2 places - once as a preset saved in the project folder, so it will always be local to the project that uses it. I also save the presets off in a User Preset folder I generally set up for every synth, so that I can use those custom presets for other projects (either intact or as a base from which I can tweak for the other project). 3. I also now create a sub-folder within each project folder, called Project Notes, and there will be one or more text documents containing editing notes, project notes, track notes, whatever is needed for that particular project, and this includes what synths are used, what effects are used, what presets are used for each synth, and any info on any patch construction, etc. All this info may seem like overkill, and I always hope that it is - but it has also saved me lots of pain and agony when things go South after some lengthy time has passed and I cannot remember details when I need them the most. I highly recommend you give some thought to what info you might find helpful to have stored outside each project, so that you can rebuild or at least get close to how it was, for any occasion where things fall apart. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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SilkTone
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Re: Options for "missing" plugins?
2015/04/08 17:12:53
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...wicked Well, could it just do a check to see if the patch parameters "take"? If it doesn't work because the versions are so different they don't read then that's just the way it is. Most plugins would probably crash since they will be reading binary data that they didn't create. It's usually a recipe for disaster.
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
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