Helpful ReplyOrange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday

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cclarry
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2016/02/14 17:16:17 (permalink)

Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday


A little sneak peek of what's coming next Tuesday. Totaling over 5 GB of uncompressed audio content, Evolution Modern Nylon is a versatile instrument, capable of many styles of music beyond classical guitar, including pop/rock and even flamenco guitar.


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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/14 18:11:40 (permalink)
I have been waiting for this one. I will have to check my " Orange Slices".

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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/14 23:29:27 (permalink)
Mmmm, looks nice.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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TerraSin
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/15 03:15:58 (permalink)
Well damn, I was planning on saving some money. >_<
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/15 04:57:25 (permalink)
I hope it works in Kontakt 4.

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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/15 08:58:02 (permalink)
Kalle Rantaaho
I hope it works in Kontakt 4.


I suspect it will be Kontakt Player and NKS compatible. Which means it will need Kontakt 5, but it will work in the free K5 player.

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thepianist65
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/15 09:25:41 (permalink)
Been expecting this for a while, and just in time, too!  

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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/16 10:59:48 (permalink)
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gregjazz
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/16 11:56:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TerraSin 2016/02/16 19:51:37
Glyn Barnes
Kalle Rantaaho
I hope it works in Kontakt 4.


I suspect it will be Kontakt Player and NKS compatible. Which means it will need Kontakt 5, but it will work in the free K5 player.

Yup, it's for the Kontakt Player and NKS compatible. So if you don't own Kontakt 5, you can just download the free Kontakt Player from the Native Instruments website here: http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/free-download/
 
And by the way, man you guys are fast! Every time I come here to post an announcement, the word's already out! :)

Greg Schlaepfer
Orange Tree Samples
http://www.orangetreesamples.com
#9
Glyn Barnes
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/16 12:21:09 (permalink)
gregjazz
And by the way, man you guys are fast! Every time I come here to post an announcement, the word's already out! :)


Yep - I had bought it and downloaded it before you posted!  Just had a quick run through the presets and its sounds every bit as good as I expected.
It works great with my new NI S61 keyboard too, any word on the KK versions of Banshee and Stratosphere?

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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/16 13:56:05 (permalink)
Glyn Barnes
gregjazz
And by the way, man you guys are fast! Every time I come here to post an announcement, the word's already out! :)


Yep - I had bought it and downloaded it before you posted!  Just had a quick run through the presets and its sounds every bit as good as I expected.
It works great with my new NI S61 keyboard too, any word on the KK versions of Banshee and Stratosphere?


Aargh, can't wait to use this with the NI keys, but too expensive for now.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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bitflipper
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/16 13:56:23 (permalink)
It sounds absolutely wonderful, and of course there's the excellent array of articulations we've come to expect from OTS guitars. This is gonna be a winner, I'm sure.
 
Now, this is likely a minority opinion, but I for one am a little disappointed that Greg's drunk the NI Kool-Aid and gone the licensed-library route. I completely understand the motivation (copy protection), but I'm already frustrated by having had to re-purchase Kontakt 5 times so far and resent giving NI any more money than I have to.
 
BTW, Kalle, for a K4-compatible nylon guitar I'd suggest Ilya Efimov's excellent offering (99 EUR). I suspect it may be lacking one or two of OTS' features, but it sounds great.
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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Vastman
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/16 15:02:47 (permalink)
Personally, Bit... I love the player/authorization system... you don't need to  update K5 although I always do... and it doesn't happen often; huge improvements each time...  Most important, it makes it easy to afford by many more new folk.  
 
Downloading NOW!  I got paid at exactly the right moment!  
 
Love you, Greg... awesome stuff
 
post edited by Vastman - 2016/02/16 15:18:02

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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/16 15:03:59 (permalink)
bitflipper
It sounds absolutely wonderful, and of course there's the excellent array of articulations we've come to expect from OTS guitars. This is gonna be a winner, I'm sure.
 
Now, this is likely a minority opinion, but I for one am a little disappointed that Greg's drunk the NI Kool-Aid and gone the licensed-library route. I completely understand the motivation (copy protection), but I'm already frustrated by having had to re-purchase Kontakt 5 times so far and resent giving NI any more money than I have to.
 
BTW, Kalle, for a K4-compatible nylon guitar I'd suggest Ilya Efimov's excellent offering (99 EUR). I suspect it may be lacking one or two of OTS' features, but it sounds great.
 


To match the OT product you would have to go for Ilya Eftimov Nylon Complete which adds the strumming engine (assuming you want that feature). The jury is still out here as to which is the best strum engine. Orange Tree is the most intuitive but Ilya's is not far behind and has some different features.
 
I certainly welcome the NKS support now I have an NI keyboard and it was nice to install the library and have every thing set up. However you can take advantage of most of the features in almost any Kontakt library by mapping your own templates. Browsing of Snapshots in the KK browser seems to be the main feature that can't be done (or at least I have yet to find a way of doing it) with a unlicenced library.
 
I would like to see developers make their libraries NKS friendly but not necessarily completely NKS compliant (and by implication a licenced library). This involves making an NKI with host automation assignments and a Kompete Kontrol preset file. In most cases users can do the necessary editing in a quarter of an hour but occasionally you run into snags. For some reason I cannot assign host automation to Ilya Eftimov’s TC guitar or Fretless Bass for example. Then there a little annoyances like inconsistencies, even within the same instrument, in the direction you need to turn the knob for on and off switches.
 
NI of course trumpet the features of KK for its own products and NKS compliant licenced libraries while at the same time not clearly documenting what you can do with a normal library.
 
 
 
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2016/02/16 15:55:41

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Vastman
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/16 15:43:08 (permalink)
My biggest desire is to have user presets come up in the list as I've labeled them...and, more importantly, in the GUI where the kew switching is labeled... currently it just says: "user preset".  If you have several of your own presets assigned, they all just say, "user preset".  I have talked to greg about this and he says this ability does not exist yet and he agrees...and hopes this ability will be added in the next iteration of Kontakt.
 
Been muckin' around with Nylon for awhile... WOW!  beautiful and soooo easy to create with.  Absolutely lovely.  
post edited by Vastman - 2016/02/16 16:12:56

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thepianist65
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/16 16:30:06 (permalink)
Every bit as good as I expected it to be, and more!  Another bulls-eye for Greg and OTS. 

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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/22 18:36:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TerraSin 2016/02/22 19:39:03
Vastman
My biggest desire is to have user presets come up in the list as I've labeled them...and, more importantly, in the GUI where the kew switching is labeled... currently it just says: "user preset".  If you have several of your own presets assigned, they all just say, "user preset".  I have talked to greg about this and he says this ability does not exist yet and he agrees...and hopes this ability will be added in the next iteration of Kontakt.

With the previous iteration of the Evolution engine, we used Kontakt's NKA files store all the preset data--these are just basic arrays stored in text format. Kontakt can import and export these data files, which is what allowed us to have the external preset file feature. However, Kontakt's scripting doesn't return the name of the NKA file loaded, which is why the library would only say "External Preset" if you loaded one.
 
Native Instruments then added the snapshot feature to Kontakt 5, which is designed specifically to address the issue of providing factory presets within a single instrument patch as well as being able to have custom preset files as well. The nice part about these snapshot files is that you can even load them directly and Kontakt will automatically load the library they belong to. Your user presets also show up right next to the factory snapshots, which is very convenient--they're all accessible from a dropdown menu rather than opening a file loading window each time. Finally, if you own a Komplete Kontrol keyboard or Maschine, you can browse through the presets using the buttons on the hardware directly.
 
Evolution Modern Nylon, Strawberry, and Steel Strings all use snapshots now, so the issue of not seeing your user preset name has been solved in those libraries. We'll be releasing updates for Evolution Banshee and Evolution Stratosphere to bring this functionality to those libraries as well.

Greg Schlaepfer
Orange Tree Samples
http://www.orangetreesamples.com
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cclarry
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/22 19:05:22 (permalink)
gregjazz
Glyn Barnes
Kalle Rantaaho
I hope it works in Kontakt 4.


 
And by the way, man you guys are fast! Every time I come here to post an announcement, the word's already out! :)





 
They don't call me "quick deal" Larry for nothin' 
post edited by cclarry - 2016/02/23 10:08:06


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gregjazz
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/22 19:09:51 (permalink)
bitflipper
Now, this is likely a minority opinion, but I for one am a little disappointed that Greg's drunk the NI Kool-Aid and gone the licensed-library route. I completely understand the motivation (copy protection), but I'm already frustrated by having had to re-purchase Kontakt 5 times so far and resent giving NI any more money than I have to.

While Kontakt Player's copy protection is probably a motivation for some developers, it really makes no difference to me. People are going to pirate software one way or another, so my opinion is that it's best to just concentrate on bringing more value to legitimate users--frequent updates to products, allowing them to access and re-download the libraries they own any time they want, etc.
 
My sole motivations for licensing the Kontakt Player are:
 
- People don't need to own Kontakt to use libraries. While Kontakt is unquestionably one of the most popular samplers out there, not everybody owns it. And it's tough for people to justify buying the full version of Kontakt just to use a single library. This is really the main reason for licensing the Kontakt Player, which makes sample libraries more accessible.
 
- Your library shows up in the libraries tab. Over the years, I've received hundreds upon hundreds of emails from people wondering why certain libraries can't be included in their libraries tab. While I personally prefer Kontakt's Quick Load feature, I understand that many users like all their libraries accessible from the libraries tab.
 
- The ability to include factory snapshots with the library. I guess a developer could always include snapshots separately and indicate in the instructions to move them to your user snapshots folder, but that just adds another complicated step to the installation process. But for full NKS integration, which includes the library browser popup when pressing the "browse" button on the Komplete Kontrol keyboard, for example, it needs to be a Kontakt Player instrument.
 
Hope that helps clarify things! If you have any questions about anything, just let me know.

Greg Schlaepfer
Orange Tree Samples
http://www.orangetreesamples.com
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Fleer
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/22 22:50:37 (permalink)
Love what you're doing, Greg, hope you'll bring the Rosewood Grand to NKS too.

"We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" (Wish You Were Here)
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bitflipper
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/23 12:46:06 (permalink)
Good answer, Greg. I should know better than to question your motives. Ignore nit-pickers like me and keep those great products coming!
 
Question for you: almost nobody offers both player-compatible and full-Kontakt versions at a lower price. Why is that? Assuming your NDA permits an answer, does NI penalize or prohibit you from doing that?


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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gregjazz
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/23 19:27:41 (permalink)
bitflipperQuestion for you: almost nobody offers both player-compatible and full-Kontakt versions at a lower price. Why is that? Assuming your NDA permits an answer, does NI penalize or prohibit you from doing that?

As far as I know, we aren't prohibited from offering separate Player and non-Player versions. I think the reason more developers don't do that is just due to the logistics of maintaining two editions of the same library.
 
Some of this pertains to NKS integration, if developers want to include factory snapshots, database graphics for the Komplete browser, etc., since those require that the library is encoded for the Kontakt Player. Developers would also need to keep both development copies separate, yet any updates/changes mirrored between both editions.
 
The other issue is with how to handle special cases. What if somebody buys the Kontakt Player instrument, and then wants to downgrade to the non Player version? Once the serial number is assigned to their Native Instruments user account, their serial number can't just return to the pool of available serials.
 
The other issue with upgrading/downgrading between editions and how that relates to someone's existing projects. I don't think you can just swap out the non-Player library with the Player version (or vice versa) because usually DAWs store the NKI itself in the project file in order to preserve all your settings--or at least that's how Sonar works. So if you swapped them out, you would have to recreate all your settings in the interface, re-automate controls, etc.
 
So ultimately having a single edition of the library just simplifies things for both the developers and the users.

Greg Schlaepfer
Orange Tree Samples
http://www.orangetreesamples.com
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/24 03:39:43 (permalink)
Soundiron have quoted me $10 to upgrade my Olympus Elements library to the Player version. I will upgrade to take advantage of the upcoming NKS update, I would not have bothered if I did not have the S61 Keyboard.

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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/24 11:34:53 (permalink)
I completely understand the hassles of maintaining multiple versions. I have to do that with my own software, and although there is a common code base it's riddled with compile conditionals and requires separate testing for each version.
 
Given the level of sophistication in Greg's scripting, and lack of support for conditionals in Kontakt's interpreter, I can see where maintaining multiple versions could be a PIA. 
 
 
It comes as a surprise, however, that snapshots are deprecated in the full version of Kontakt. That's underhanded, even for NI.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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gregjazz
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/24 17:23:48 (permalink)
bitflipper
It comes as a surprise, however, that snapshots are deprecated in the full version of Kontakt. That's underhanded, even for NI.

While you can use snapshots in non Kontakt Player libraries, it's just having the factory snapshots presets that requires it to be a Kontakt Player library. A developer could still include the snapshots with instructions to copy them to your "Documents / Native Instruments / User Content / Kontakt" folder, but that's an extra installation step. I much prefer having the library self-contained within its own single folder.

I was a little surprised when I realized that only Kontakt Player instruments can include a factory snapshots folder, but I guess that's just an extra perk to licensing the Player (like allowing it to be added to the libraries tab):
 

post edited by gregjazz - 2016/02/24 17:38:13

Greg Schlaepfer
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http://www.orangetreesamples.com
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Vastman
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/24 22:03:54 (permalink)
gregjazz
Vastman
My biggest desire is to have user presets come up in the list as I've labeled them...and, more importantly, in the GUI where the kew switching is labeled... currently it just says: "user preset".  If you have several of your own presets assigned, they all just say, "user preset".  I have talked to greg about this and he says this ability does not exist yet and he agrees...and hopes this ability will be added in the next iteration of Kontakt.

With the previous iteration of the Evolution engine, we used Kontakt's NKA files store all the preset data--these are just basic arrays stored in text format. Kontakt can import and export these data files, which is what allowed us to have the external preset file feature. However, Kontakt's scripting doesn't return the name of the NKA file loaded, which is why the library would only say "External Preset" if you loaded one.
 
Native Instruments then added the snapshot feature to Kontakt 5, which is designed specifically to address the issue of providing factory presets within a single instrument patch as well as being able to have custom preset files as well. The nice part about these snapshot files is that you can even load them directly and Kontakt will automatically load the library they belong to. Your user presets also show up right next to the factory snapshots, which is very convenient--they're all accessible from a dropdown menu rather than opening a file loading window each time. Finally, if you own a Komplete Kontrol keyboard or Maschine, you can browse through the presets using the buttons on the hardware directly.
 
Evolution Modern Nylon, Strawberry, and Steel Strings all use snapshots now, so the issue of not seeing your user preset name has been solved in those libraries. We'll be releasing updates for Evolution Banshee and Evolution Stratosphere to bring this functionality to those libraries as well.


Actually, Greg... I was referring to the "strum" presets... They do not come up labeled as I've saved them... unless I'm doing something totally wrong...If I make 3 new nylon presets (as there is no custom "gregg nylon" presets... they all come up "User Preset" and it becomes a guessing game...which is which...in strums 1-6
 
I emailed you recently suggesting you might want to come up with a raft of great new strums particularly appropriate to the steel and nylon guitars...in an update as at least then they'd have unique names.
 
Naturally, I hope I'm doing something wrong but when I save a strum and load it the gui still says "user preset" in the strum box for whichever of the 1 thru 6 slots I assigned it to... 
 
If I'm doing it wrong, how do I do it correctly?
post edited by Vastman - 2016/02/24 22:19:06

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#26
Glyn Barnes
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/25 05:48:03 (permalink)
gregjazz

While you can use snapshots in non Kontakt Player libraries, it's just having the factory snapshots presets that requires it to be a Kontakt Player library. A developer could still include the snapshots with instructions to copy them to your "Documents / Native Instruments / User Content / Kontakt" folder, but that's an extra installation step. I much prefer having the library self-contained within its own single folder.


I just produced a couple of Komplete Kontrol presets for Bigcatt's free pianos and I can see how messy it can get.
 
There are no snapshots, just a modified NKI and a NKSN file (Komplet Kontrol Preset file) Seems the user has to copy the *.NKSN file in its folder into the User Content / Kontakt. Then when you try to load it in Komplet Kontrol you have to run throught the Kontakt missing files dialogue twice, resave the NKI, then resave the preset. I can see this would cause all manner of problems for a commercial developer. I can see the comments on the forums now!
 
I like the way my presets for OTS Cherry have turned out. Just the one NKI but I have *.nksn presets in KK for eack of the articulations and velocity switched presets for mutes/sustain/slides for both the picked and fingered articulation.
 
I also once I hade set up the host automation for Evolution Rick, it wasn't too onerous to save a new NKSN for each of it's factory presets.
 
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2016/02/25 06:03:17

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#27
gregjazz
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Re: Orange Tree Evolution Modern Nylon coming Tuesday 2016/02/26 19:39:14 (permalink)
Vastman
Actually, Greg... I was referring to the "strum" presets... They do not come up labeled as I've saved them... unless I'm doing something totally wrong...If I make 3 new nylon presets (as there is no custom "gregg nylon" presets... they all come up "User Preset" and it becomes a guessing game...which is which...in strums 1-6
[...]
Naturally, I hope I'm doing something wrong but when I save a strum and load it the gui still says "user preset" in the strum box for whichever of the 1 thru 6 slots I assigned it to...

Ohh, I see what you mean. Yeah, there's currently no way to retrieve the file name from KSP, which is why it just displays "user preset" for external strumming presets (and custom chord presets as well).

Greg Schlaepfer
Orange Tree Samples
http://www.orangetreesamples.com
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